What I think should happen with Silent Hill

[Noname6]

I would like SH to be more adult.

I also think Owaku is more of a contributor than Yamaoka. Sound simply doesn't make a good game.

I could not disagree stronger.

Sound is an extremely important element to Silent Hill. It is one of those things that the series relies on in order to frighten and disturb the player. You can say what you want about his music, but Yamaoka was perfect at using sound in Silent Hill to scare the player. He knew when to use it and how to use it effectively in order to create a foreboding feeling of dread while exploring areas in the dark. It is an important trick in that bag of tricks I was talking about. As for him being more important than Owaku or Ito for that matter. Well, creating games is a collaborative effort. It's hard to say who is more important than the other, since each individual game designer brings his or her own unique style to the mix which contributes to the whole.

Yamaoka did stick around longer than the others, so of course he can't carry the weight of the series on his shoulders alone. But to say that his sound design is unimportant, imagine Silent Hill 1-4 without it. Hell, Silent Hill 1 wouldn't have been half as frightening as it was without Yamaoka's dissonant industrial score.

Yamaoka cut a lot of corners sampling from copyright free music. While sound is important there would be no STORY with out Owaku and therefore Owaku is more valuable than Yamaoka. (And Toyama.) As Homecoming proved, having a good music composer doesn't equal a GOOD Silent Hill game.

So do 99% of contemporary film, TV, and video game composers. People may think that "sampling" is cutting corners, but in the contemporary age of audio production most people are creating music via VST plug ins and sampling anyway.

I have done enough of my own sampling to understand that there is nothing wrong with it. Creating a collage of sounds still takes the know-how to understand what is effective and what works and does not work. And the problem with Homecoming was the least of all its music, but rather how it was implemented into the game. I never said that having a good composer equals a good game, just that sound is an important element to making a good Silent Hill game.

There is a major difference there.

[captain crowbar]

I think game devs are so de-sensitized to what IS scary, that they can't make a scary game anymore because they're immune, so they just try to emulate something that they think people will think is scary. And then Homecoming happened and they realized that Hostel wasn't really scary, just gruesome.

The reason Team Silent was so successful in this regard was the fact that the things in the game were obviously things that were scary TO THEM. They knew that if they could transfer that creepy, on-edge feeling into the game that others would share that fear and the ideas would be successful.

This one core element is what has been missing from every title since 4. The creepy, grimy, gritty factor. It's been attempted, but just not nearly as well executed by the others.

[clips7]

I just think it's an overall cultural thing....the japanese team had an amazing mix of j-horror and what they perceived to be american horror and came up with an unique formula nobody has been able to duplicate. If you see early interviews from the japanese team, you'll see that they stated initially to create an american horror game.

I'm sure when folks first heard of SH back then, the first thing that came to everybody's mind was that it was going up against RE and that it was going to be something like that series, when it was anything but that....the flashlight effect and the streaming environments was cutting edge tech back then and the horror was something completely different from RE....it was more terrifying, unrelenting, obscure and oppressive than anything RE could conjure up..

The series needs to continue to make new entries that are stand-alone one-shots with interesting storylines and new characters everytime...i keep saying this series can shine because it's not regulated to a strict plot like RE...hate to sound repetitive, but this series is like the old twighlight zone series...

[The Gentleman]

I just think it's an overall cultural thing....the japanese team had an amazing mix of j-horror and what they perceived to be american horror and came up with an unique formula nobody has been able to duplicate. If you see early interviews from the japanese team, you'll see that they stated initially to create an american horror game.

Which is why I think new teams should try new, cultural outlooks on psychological horror for the series. If Vatra get more chances I'd love to see them excercise elements of eastern european and gothic horror into proceedings, cultures like that have a lot of folklore to draw upon. I remember a post on Tomm's blog where he talked about the Czech city Vatra's situated in having loads of graveyards and crypts. I'd love to see such a cultural outlook on horror mixed into the old Team Silent legacy. The recurring crows in Downpour and the Centennial building library I think are great little nods to this.

[HalfTransition]

I prefer Silent Hill games that always feel the same rather that new SH games that totally don't feel like SH at all.

And yes, it's possible to capture the old feel of the games. Just look at Origins. Silent Hill is not a mere horror game, it's a whole universe and mood that has to stay the same, otherwise it won't be SH anymore. To me, SH is not a game with a town and monsters. It's much more than that.

SH1 and SH2 where different, but they still had the same atmosphere. Just look at SH3: It blended SH1 and SH2's atmosphere and you could see that both games merged togheter.

I think the series should just stop. If they can't make good SH games anymore, then just stop making SH games and making it worse every time. If people continue being so open minded, god knows what they could try. Yeah, I prefer being close minded in that case.

[Augophthalmoses]

If people continue being so open minded, god knows what they could try. Yeah, I prefer being close minded in that case.

This kind of thinking right here needs to stay the hell out of the video game industry.

[HalfTransition]

If people continue being so open minded, god knows what they could try. Yeah, I prefer being close minded in that case.

This kind of thinking right here needs to stay the hell out of the video game industry.

Ok then, but don't cry once SH takes the same path as RE (Tomm said in an interview that SH could take the same path as RE, search up a little) because some fans where too much open minded towards change.

Silent Hill is supposed to be a horror game, not a damn baldur's gate kinda game like book of memories. SH has his own look and feel, if they change everything that made SH so great, then it will become anything but silent hill.

[Augophthalmoses]

Ok then, but don't cry once SH takes the same path as RE

Basic scaremongering in that post. "Waah any changes to formula is Resident Evil!" Let's outgrow this kind of thinking and keep it elementary school where it in belongs.

(Tomm said in an interview that SH could take the same path as RE, search up a little)

You're clearly talking out of your ass here. Where on earth has he ever said such a thing? Anyway, sticking to familiarity in a HORROR series is a terrible idea. The series always needs new ideas and you can induce horror and tension on top of balancing it with that "Silent Hill feel".

SH4 had the right idea by bringing in fresh new ideas. Wanting to play the same recycled game structure. Book of Memories is just an experimental, spin off title. Don't want the game? Don't buy it. But don't get so hooked on this little kiddy idea of the series having this "purity" level and that any new idea alien to the first three or so games somehow "violates" it. At the end of the day, they're still video games and there's all kind of potential for new scares and storytelling by not confining the series to what was established in the first few games.

These new releases don't pin you against the wall with a Glock to your head preventing you from going back and playing the early titles either. Nor do they use that same game to force you into forking over money to buy future installments.

[devil hunter]

I prefer Silent Hill games that always feel the same rather that new SH games that totally don't feel like SH at all.

And yes, it's possible to capture the old feel of the games. Just look at Origins. Silent Hill is not a mere horror game, it's a whole universe and mood that has to stay the same, otherwise it won't be SH anymore. To me, SH is not a game with a town and monsters. It's much more than that.

SH1 and SH2 where different, but they still had the same atmosphere. Just look at SH3: It blended SH1 and SH2's atmosphere and you could see that both games merged togheter.

I think the series should just stop. If they can't make good SH games anymore, then just stop making SH games and making it worse every time. If people continue being so open minded, god knows what they could try. Yeah, I prefer being close minded in that case.

Every SH game tried new things. Some people were angry that SH 2 was a lot of different from 1 when it first came out, same thing with 4 actually, it's different, so it sucks. That's a silly way of thinking.

SH 1 and 2 didn't had the same atmosphere. Every SH game has different feel and atmosphere, you can't compare atmospheres of the games. SH 3 was kind of similar to 1 because it's a sequel, but it still didn't had the same atmosphere. The game explored different themes and other stuff, it wasn't exactly the same as SH 1. How did it blend the atmosphere of 1 and 2 together? Didn't saw any sign of something like SH 2 in 3,

The devs know what they're doing, they won't make a game where you're fighting unicorns with candy cones and rainbows.
Being close minded is not good for this series. This series is designed for different ideas.
Also, making it worse every time? That's debatable and highly subjective. Some people like some of the newer games some don't. Some at least like some of the stuff they did in the new games.

Also, need I remind you that Homecoming tried to play it safe, and re used some of the old stuff to please the fans?

Ok then, but don't cry once SH takes the same path as RE (Tomm said in an interview that SH could take the same path as RE, search up a little) because some fans where too much open minded towards change.

Where did you get the idea that SH will take the same path as RE? If anything, Downpour proved that they want to stick to the pure survival horror. SH series is still in survival horror. They're not talking about THAT KIND of change.

Silent Hill is supposed to be a horror game, not a damn baldur's gate kinda game like book of memories. SH has his own look and feel, if they change everything that made SH so great, then it will become anything but silent hill.

It's a spinoff game, look at some other SH spinoff games.
Every SH game has its own look and feel. Who said they're gonna do that? Besides, how can you know what makes SH game a SH game?
I'll bring up SH 1 and 2 again.
It's your first time playing SH 1. After some time you finished it, you think you got the general idea of what is going on. Then you play SH 2 and all of the stuff you thought you learned from SH 1 is not mentioned there, in fact there's something completely different going on.

[HalfTransition]

Yeah, SH1,2,3,4 feeled different from each other but at least they all had this particular feel that made them relate to each other. The visuals, the monsters, the whole mood, was similar in each games (even in SH4). Climax did very well with Origins, they understood what SH is about and they really got the mood. But the other games (SM, homecoming, Downpour) where too different and IMO, the new elements in those games totally screwed up everything.

About BOM, I don't care for this game but it is a step forward towards something very bad. Remember that Konami don't really give a fuck about what Silent Hill is about. For them, it's just a name that gives them money. And at some point, if the series don't sell well enough, they'll see that this series is not good enough for them to invest to anymore.

They will either

- Stop financing the devs because it's useless
- Turn the series into something that will make them earn money.

Hell, I'm sure a group of everyday fans could make something better than homecoming and downpour if they had the money and where not under konami's watch.


EDIT: I'll find the interview where Tomm said that someday SH could take RE's direction.

EDIT2: Tomm only said that the SH games could have different spin-offs just like RE had. That still sucks.

[Augophthalmoses]

EDIT: I'll find the interview where Tomm said that someday SH could take RE's direction.

Here's a better idea: stop wasting time peddling clear cut bullshit. When are we going to start acting like big boys and girls and realize that video game companies never have and never will make video games primarily for friendship and magic?

No shit they're using Silent Hill to turn a profit. That's been their primary incentive since the very first game. Stop taking video games so seriously that you lose touch with aspects of the real world including the realm of business.

[devil hunter]

Yeah, SH1,2,3,4 feeled different from each other but at least they all had this particular feel that made them relate to each other. The visuals, the monsters, the whole mood, was similar in each games (even in SH4). Climax did very well with Origins, they understood what SH is about and they really got the mood. But the other games (SM, homecoming, Downpour) where too different and IMO, the new elements in those games totally screwed up everything.

The visuals, the monsters, the mood were not similar in each games. Each game had different looking monsters, different mood and different visuals. They wanted to make SM different, besides, it's not the part of the main canon so why do you care so much? It's not the game's fault it wasn't your cup of tea, there are other people who like it. Some people will like some SH games, some don't. Homecoming and Downpour weren't really so different from other games. New elements didn't screw up anything.

Hell, I'm sure a group of everyday fans could make something better than homecoming and downpour if they had the money and where not under konami's watch.

Not neccesarily. How can a fan know what SH is about anyways? Do I need to bring up how much different SH 2 was from 1 when it came out again?

[captain crowbar]

Origins felt like a poor attempt at imitating SH1 to me, which is one reason I don't care for it much. Too similar = forgettable and unnecessary, just like Homecoming.

I like it when game devs show some sack, personally.

Also I think it's a mistake to dismiss BoM as non-canon. After all, if you can just pick and choose like that what you consider canon, then where does it end? IMO now Origins, Homecoming and SH3 are now not canon to the series.

Just because it's different doesn't mean it isn't canon. Necessarily. Maybe it's not INTENDED to be canon (like the arcade game?), and that's different. But the devs have to clearly say that to our faces for that to be accurate.

Edit: http://www.tommhulett.com/?p=436 BoM is canon

[clips7]

If you look at the current state of horror films today, you'll realize that it is in serious decline. You can still find a few gems here and there by accident, but for the most part it's garbage. For the most part this series needs to hold on to it's roots...which is disturbing, ans terrifying atmospheres with interesting storylines and characters. I think you can innovate in terms of character animations and abilities in a physical manner, but anything else might be pushing it....like finding out the source of the town's power or characters walking around with super powers and abilites..

I personally don't see how BOM can be canon with the series with all of the other creatures from past games in it unique to other individuals,...i'm sure they can probably find a way around it, but i'm not sure if it'll be done in a convincing matter. At the end of the day i think the series needs to stay a true horror experience and the latest game in Downpour points to the fact that konami is trying to steer the series back to it's core...

[NarooN]

Besides small mods and such for other games (like HL2), I don't think I could ever play a fan-made SH game. It'd be filled with so much self-righteous bullshit on their part that it wouldn't be worth it. Especially the certain type of fans who worship TS.

[Wren]

I'm a little too tired to read through this thread in it's entirety, but I have to admit that I'm completely stumped by this premise. Half of the fans will bitch that the latter games are too different, and this guy is bitching that they're too similar.
THA FUCK?!
I agree that making infinite remakes of the first few games is just idiotic (because it really, really is) but that's not what they're doing at all. Downpour was a nearly perfect mix of old and new, and they need to go in THAT direction instead of doing the shit that hasn't worked thus far.
It's great that there are those fans who want the series to be innovative and expand, and there's nothing wrong with wanting the series to keep from growing stale, but the devs still have an obligation to balance what the veteran fans want with what will bring in a wider crowd. We can't have every single new game turn into a dynamic mould breaker just for the sake of breaking the mould, or the series will end up with so much diversity that it lacks integrity.

Eh. That sounded a little harsh, but I'm sure you guys know what I mean by now.

[Purramid_Head]

If people continue being so open minded, god knows what they could try. Yeah, I prefer being close minded in that case.

This kind of thinking right here needs to stay the hell out of the video game industry.

Ok then, but don't cry once SH takes the same path as RE (Tomm said in an interview that SH could take the same path as RE, search up a little) because some fans where too much open minded towards change.

Silent Hill is supposed to be a horror game, not a damn baldur's gate kinda game like book of memories. SH has his own look and feel, if they change everything that made SH so great, then it will become anything but silent hill.

SH was made to rival RE. The first game played almost exactly the same as RE.

And honestly, do you not know your place? You don't own Silent Hill, I don't own it either. It's Konami's series and it is made for profit. The fans being "open minded" won't nessecerly mean that it's not gonna change. All the games are different and 4 was meant to be a spin off anyway.

[SilentHill19]

Continue the path of downpour, it was like an original feeling; add a little more original characters though, an monsters

[clips7]

I agree that they should continue with the path of Downpour...it did just about everything right, except the monsters needed to be more disturbing and better design and the otherworld should not have been composed of chase sequences...they nailed the atmosphere tho...

[The Gentleman]

I hope the feedback from fans and critics encourages Konami to take Vatra on again. They pretty much nailed everything that was important.