Possible MASSIVE Plot Hole?

[captain crowbar]

Spoilers guys, but you know that already XD

So, basically, I made a video to explain everything. I don't know if it's a plot hole, bad story telling, or if I just misunderstood some things, but here we go:

[Mr.E.Nygma]

Okay. I believe ending A is canon. "It's my fault he died" its possible that Frank died later on because of all his injuries and maybe that's what drove Anne to bring Murphy to her prison. After he had finally died she finally snapped, and that's how the whole story started. Ending A is also canon because the whole thing is that "Revenge is Bad" so for her to kill Sewell the story is basically a hypocrite xD. Also if Frank was a vegetable he may have been, unable to speak or had severe brain damage so he could have never had told anyone Murphy didnt' do it. Perhaps he finally scummed to his injuries shortly before the story.

[Lingo]

I don't know if the game ever explicitly states it but I assumed that when Murphy gets on the prison transport bus with Anne at the start, it's quite a few years after Frank was attacked and eventually died. Whatever Murphy was originally charged with would've been bumped up to first or second degree murder upon Frank's death and that might explain transportation to a new prison or the addition of the death penalty to his sentence.

I wouldn't say it's a plot hole, just a plot point that's lazily under explained. A lot of the narrative in Downpour doesn't make much sense if looked at from a technical standpoint.

[NoddingPenguin]

I don't agree with you really. When he kills the cop/the cop gets killed that's just the initial attack. He lays down and looks dead -- that doesn't mean he is dead. He's in a vegetative state.

Also at the execution he wasn't getting executed because he killed the cop. They say he was convicted of killing the cop, but that's not why he's getting executed. The guy with the tape recorder says "Assembled here to witness the state's execution of Murphy Pendleton. Sentenced for the murder of his 7 year old son."

[Lingo]

Also at the execution he wasn't getting executed because he killed the cop. They say he was convicted of killing the cop, but that's not why he's getting executed. The guy with the tape recorder says "Assembled here to witness the state's execution of Murphy Pendleton. Sentenced for the murder of his 7 year old son."

The voice over in that video said the murder of Frank sped up the execution process which makes no sense because prior to being framed for Frank's attack, the only crime the police knew Murphy committed was the reckless driving stuff which got him in prison in the first place. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think he's ever actually blamed for killing Napier and he's definitely never believed to have killed his son. The only way it'd make any sense for him to be executed for the murder of his son if the whole thing was just a manifestation of his guilt.

[Shadedarkan]

<This comment rescinded by poster>

[captain crowbar]

Well it's not that the story was bad...just as you said, they left a little TOO MUCH up to our ability to decipher the intent.

[Purramid_Head]

Hold on, now. There's been a few times people thought there were plot holes in past games and come to find out later there wasn't. We just didn't fully understand. This could be the same with Downpour. I'm in the process of beating it again whit list doing the sidequests and I'll give my opinion later.

[captain crowbar]

I hope you will Xuch. I don't actually think it's a plot HOLE, just something that's potentially confusing to people.

[Purramid_Head]

I think that's the point.

[devil hunter]

Don't worry crowbar, there's no plot hole , you just misunderstood some things. "Moral choices" and you killing or just decapitating monsters affect the ending. You can look at the endings like the ones in The Suffering. Some endings show Murphy as the different person, what I mean is that his crime is different.

I finished the game today, didn't got all the endings but this thread interested me so I saw some endings I didn't saw on Youtube.

In ending A and B Sewell is the one who brutally injured Frank (he didn't die right away though, he died years later because of those injuries). Murphy agreed with Sewell to kill the bastard that deserves it, but when he found out it was Frank he couldn't do it. Sewell beat up Frank and accused Murphy of doing that.
Murphy blamed himself for making that deal with Sewell and not being able to protect Frank when Sewell was beating him up, then Frank died because of the injuries after some time. That's why Murphy blames himself for his death.

In Ending C, the "Full Circle" ending, he does kill Frank. That ending doesn't show Sewell beating Frank, Murphy kills Frank right there. Frank died right away because of the injuries.

Ending D, "Execution", doesn't show Sewell beating Frank up either. In that ending Murphy killed his son and Frank. He says "I'll see you in hell, cupcake." to Sewell because of the deal they had and he's probably as guilty as him, because in that ending Sewell said that the bastard deserves it and Murphy did what Sewell asked him to, he killed Frank.

I think that's how it happens because, like I mentioned before, it doesn't show Sewell doing that. Murphy did it in those endings.

[captain crowbar]

Maybe the endings have nothing to do with what Anne was saying, but rather they're what Murphy explicitly saw and remembered, and for whatever reason, he overlooks Anne's earlier comments. But then it's strange for him to fight the Wheelchair man without knowing that Frank was a vegetable. That's obviously Anne's otherworld blending with his own. But it's still not handled quite as smoothly as it could have been IMO.

How they could have fixed it: Anne should have told him all that stuff about him being in a chair all his life AFTER the final confrontation...that way, if she didn't, Murphy got the bad endings and killed Frank himself. But if he spared her, she would have spilled the beans and the good endings would make more sense.

[devil hunter]

I think that the wheelchair thing is Anne's monster, since Murphy didn't knew Frank survived, well for some time.

I guess those bad endings are not canon then, besides you can find stuff like that in the earlier games too. For example, stuff James told Angela in SH 2, how he would never kill himself and the "In Water" ending has him commiting suicide.

It's not such a big thing anyways.

[captain crowbar]

Yeah, it doesn't bother me. I was just like "wait, wut?" while I was editing some stuff and thought I'd look into it.

[Yuki]

In ending A and B Sewell is the one who brutally injured Frank (he didn't die right away though, he died years later because of those injuries). Murphy agreed with Sewell to kill the bastard that deserves it, but when he found out it was Frank he couldn't do it. Sewell beat up Frank and accused Murphy of doing that.
Murphy blamed himself for making that deal with Sewell and not being able to protect Frank when Sewell was beating him up, then Frank died because of the injuries after some time. That's why Murphy blames himself for his death.

In Ending C, the "Full Circle" ending, he does kill Frank. That ending doesn't show Sewell beating Frank, Murphy kills Frank right there. Frank died right away because of the injuries.

Ending D, "Execution", doesn't show Sewell beating Frank up either. In that ending Murphy killed his son and Frank. He says "I'll see you in hell, cupcake." to Sewell because of the deal they had and he's probably as guilty as him, because in that ending Sewell said that the bastard deserves it and Murphy did what Sewell asked him to, he killed Frank.

I think that's how it happens because, like I mentioned before, it doesn't show Sewell doing that. Murphy did it in those endings.

I think in all endings Frank winds up a vegetable; there's no point in the Wheelchair Monster if he dies instantly.

Also, it's not stated in ending D that Murphy did kill Charlie; it's stated by the police, who we know also didn't know Napier killed the boy. They could be mistaken and prosecuting Murphy under a false pretense.

[devil hunter]

From what I remember they say he drowned the boy to get the revenge on his wife.
It's not hard to believe that he's an evil bastard in that ending, considering that you need to choose bad stuff to get it.

Also, yeah, I can see Frank being a vegetable working for all the endings.

It's possible that he didn't die right away in endings C and D too.

[Yuki]

From what I remember they say he drowned the boy to get the revenge on his wife.
It's not hard to believe that he's an evil bastard in that ending, considering that you need to choose bad stuff to get it.

I don't remember that, but I've only seen the ending once or twice. That being said, I'm still inclined to think that it's the police being misguided.

[devil hunter]

Like I wrote before in this thread it's like the endings of The Suffering, based on the ending Murphy is a different person, what he did is different.

[clips7]

Yeah...i don't think it's really a plothole,...i mean it can be seen as one, but they could not outright come out and give you one of the possible endings in the game already. I mean on our first playthrough we all knew he had to be in there for "something". The bad ending where it's stated he killed his child over a dispute with his ex, could possibly be a plothole, but there is no way they could have covered that up with the conversation that he had with Frank earlier on in the game in which Frank clearly reveals why Murphy was in jail. Unless they probably could've made Frank not have that conversation with you at all based on your actions in the game up to that point...idk...

It's just one of the possible endings anyway...i think the good ending is most likely the canon ending anyway, but any one of those endings could actually work...

[Oomi]

The only thing I don't get about the Execution ending is that if Murphy killed his son then what did Napier do? What was the point of attacking him in the shower at the start of the game?