Spoilers: I have a theory about this game

[captain crowbar]

Posted this on Facebook a few days ago, thought I'd repost here:

I think Tomm Hulett and his crew were trying to give us something deeper with SHSM than most people realize. I think the monsters don't just change randomly in the game like they appear to, but rather, they are a reference to how different people may perceive the same things differently like in SH2. Maybe to silent hill, the creature is the normal faceless pink bubblegum guy, but to the individual, it's a nurse or a lying figure or a twin-faced baby monster...just something that occured to me while I was playing it the other day. I don't mean this literally since it's not a story canon game, but figuratively, as in maybe that's what they wanted to convey. what I mean is, maybe they're a reference to the individual's psychological state dictating what their monster appears to be. Maybe it never really changes at all. Maybe the person's state of mind does and it reflects that. What do you guys think?

[Shadedarkan]

I certainly agree with you in that SH7 was supposed to be something far deeper and the vast majority of the player audience just couldn't grasp the concept.
As for the monsters, I couldn't say what they looked like. I don't take the time to get up close and personal with them. I think that is why this game can still scare me during the Otherworld sequences. I'm already aware the best way to give a scare is to let the individual dream up the monster, so I don't make it a point to look the monsters in this game in the face. The possibilities fly by so quick I never actually think of any form, but subconsciously I know what they look like and they are pretty scary to me.
I don't replay this game much, but it is still one of my favorites since it caters to the psychological and story side of the genre rather than the survival side.

[captain crowbar]

I think people think of this game as too simple, when it could easily have the kind of depth the originals had and more.

[devil hunter]

Funny, people think that Downpour is simple symbolism wise too.

[Shadedarkan]

Funny, people think that Downpour is simple symbolism wise too.

I haven't been over to that forum for a while, but Downpour is much more subtle than some the later games in the series when it comes to symbolism. I can see how it could be deemed as such initially.
I feel that Shattered Memories was executed very well for what the designers were hoping to achieve in the game. It was very thought provoking, in my opinion.

[captain crowbar]

Downpour is just a little easier to decipher than some. But it does have true depth where it matters. It's somewhere between Origins and 4 on a scale of "are you confused? Well think harder"

[gustavopi]

Posted this on Facebook a few days ago, thought I'd repost here:

I think Tomm Hulett and his crew were trying to give us something deeper with SHSM than most people realize. I think the monsters don't just change randomly in the game like they appear to, but rather, they are a reference to how different people may perceive the same things differently like in SH2. Maybe to silent hill, the creature is the normal faceless pink bubblegum guy, but to the individual, it's a nurse or a lying figure or a twin-faced baby monster...just something that occured to me while I was playing it the other day. I don't mean this literally since it's not a story canon game, but figuratively, as in maybe that's what they wanted to convey. what I mean is, maybe they're a reference to the individual's psychological state dictating what their monster appears to be. Maybe it never really changes at all. Maybe the person's state of mind does and it reflects that. What do you guys think?

You almost "stolen" Tomm Hullett's words, as I remember him talking about this game. Also another guy here made a comparison with SH2, both are re-imaging of Silent Hill Horror Survival, but SH2 still keep a lot of Horror Survival, and Shattered Memories go deep.

I had long "fights" in this community trying to convince people that this game is not so simple as it looks like, although it has some problems that to me are usual in innovative creations. I'm kinda suspect to talk because I like it a lot! I see it as an interactive book or a RPG with a character is defined by player's behavior.

If you play it a few times without walkthroughs you will see that the "endings" are not linear as people said, plus...

REVEAL SPOILER

as it's really the beginning, not the ending, it has multiply meanings to the story we build during the game.

[poorjack]

Monsters? They look like monsters to you?





That pretty much sums up how monsters in SH work.

[gustavopi]

Depending of the point of view, a mermaid can be a monster, even not just like the one under your bed.

[xavier95]

You theory is true, I think. The monsters, just like the locations and items, reflect the character's inner feelings and thoughts. If a character doesn't feel restrained in their life, they don't get straight jacket monsters. The only ones that don't seem to change are the cockroaches. They seem to be actual inhabitants of the dark places in town. I also think that the level of... distortment (if you know what I mean) of monsters depends on the characters.

REVEAL SPOILER

Murphy isn't as twisted or disturbed as Alessa or James, so his monsters aren't as disturbing to look at.

About what you said on Shattered Memories; I don't count that one with the "changing" of monsters for each character.

REVEAL SPOILER

Shattered Memories is kind of in its own universe where the town is normal... well the people are screwed up, but there aren't actual monsters.

But yeah... if Murphy had gone into Alchemilla, he might not have seen nurses. If he had gone into the Historical Society, there might not have been a hole in the wall leading to a prison. The locations change, too.

[Axiomatic]

You theory is true, I think. The monsters, just like the locations and items, reflect the character's inner feelings and thoughts. If a character doesn't feel restrained in their life, they don't get straight jacket monsters. The only ones that don't seem to change are the cockroaches. They seem to be actual inhabitants of the dark places in town. I also think that the level of... distortment (if you know what I mean) of monsters depends on the characters.

REVEAL SPOILER

Murphy isn't as twisted or disturbed as Alessa or James, so his monsters aren't as disturbing to look at.

About what you said on Shattered Memories; I don't count that one with the "changing" of monsters for each character.

Shattered Memories is kind of in its own universe where the town is normal... well the people are screwed up, but there aren't actual monsters.[/spoiler]
But yeah... if Murphy had gone into Alchemilla, he might not have seen nurses. If he had gone into the Historical Society, there might not have been a hole in the wall leading to a prison. The locations change, too.

Regarding your second spoiler, I don't think the town is normal. In every Silent Hill game - and Hulett tries to get at this I think - Silent Hill as a town functions as a character throughout the games. It's this place where extraordinary, supernatural things happen. What happens in Silent Hill: Shattered Memories is only possible in that town, which makes what we would think is physically or mentally impossible, possible. There are plenty of normal things, because the game is drenched in making things more "realistic", but ultimately there are still supernatural undertones.
If the town was just some normal town, there would probably be no need to have the game take place in Silent Hill in particular.

The town is as much of a character as Harry and Cheryl. It functions as a mirror in many ways: it shows you your desires, your guilt, etc. in a distorted way usually.

The town is clearly manifesting some strange entities - perhaps not the monsters, but Harry is seen by the couple who own the house on Levin St (the house Harry thought he owned). I take it that these people really are inhabitants of Silent Hill and they really do see Harry much like Cybil sees Harry. If it was just Cybil who saw Harry, I'd be inclined to say, "Well, maybe she is just a projection, too." At the very least, that's the sort of objection I imagine would be raised.

But the couple in the house on Levin St. really do have a conversation with Harry, which prompts Cybil showing up.

This town is still weird in many ways, but its weirdness is perhaps more restrained compared to the manifestations we see in Silent Hill 1, 2, and 3.

[what]

Regarding your second spoiler,

REVEAL SPOILER

I don't think the town is normal. In every Silent Hill game - and Hulett tries to get at this I think - Silent Hill as a town functions as a character throughout the games. It's this place where extraordinary, supernatural things happen. What happens in Silent Hill: Shattered Memories is only possible in that town, which makes what we would think is physically or mentally impossible, possible. There are plenty of normal things, because the game is drenched in making things more "realistic", but ultimately there are still supernatural undertones.
If the town was just some normal town, there would probably be no need to have the game take place in Silent Hill in particular.

The town is as much of a character as Harry and Cheryl. It functions as a mirror in many ways: it shows you your desires, your guilt, etc. in a distorted way usually.

The town is clearly manifesting some strange entities - perhaps not the monsters, but Harry is seen by the couple who own the house on Levin St (the house Harry thought he owned). I take it that these people really are inhabitants of Silent Hill and they really do see Harry much like Cybil sees Harry. If it was just Cybil who saw Harry, I'd be inclined to say, "Well, maybe she is just a projection, too." At the very least, that's the sort of objection I imagine would be raised.

But the couple in the house on Levin St. really do have a conversation with Harry, which prompts Cybil showing up.

This town is still weird in many ways, but its weirdness is perhaps more restrained compared to the manifestations we see in Silent Hill 1, 2, and 3.

The title has a spoiler warning, so you can leave out the tags in the thread if you like. : D

I think xavier95 is citing from what seems to be the most commonly accepted explanation of what is going on, being that the town as seen in the game is not the town at all, but merely the mental stage for Cheryl's peacemeal recollections as she relates her life to Dr. K. What we see, when playing as Harry, is a surreal interpretation of these events as she remembers them (and the Otherworld sequences are, in effect, Cheryl railroading her own narrative by forcing herself from one series of memories to the next (hence why you are running, rather than taking the more sedate and contemplative pace of the places where vital events are referenced). In this, therefore, the real town of Silent Hill is probably perfectly normal, and whatever happens in the game happens in Cheryl's mind, which neatly accounts for all weird and otherwise inexplicable things.

Of course, there's no solid answer here and alternate theories more in line with the main canon's town of supernatural power exist, and for all we know, they're every bit as valid. I personally prefer the theory I spelled out, but your mileage my vary.

[Axiomatic]

Regarding your second spoiler,

REVEAL SPOILER

I don't think the town is normal. In every Silent Hill game - and Hulett tries to get at this I think - Silent Hill as a town functions as a character throughout the games. It's this place where extraordinary, supernatural things happen. What happens in Silent Hill: Shattered Memories is only possible in that town, which makes what we would think is physically or mentally impossible, possible. There are plenty of normal things, because the game is drenched in making things more "realistic", but ultimately there are still supernatural undertones.
If the town was just some normal town, there would probably be no need to have the game take place in Silent Hill in particular.

The town is as much of a character as Harry and Cheryl. It functions as a mirror in many ways: it shows you your desires, your guilt, etc. in a distorted way usually.

The town is clearly manifesting some strange entities - perhaps not the monsters, but Harry is seen by the couple who own the house on Levin St (the house Harry thought he owned). I take it that these people really are inhabitants of Silent Hill and they really do see Harry much like Cybil sees Harry. If it was just Cybil who saw Harry, I'd be inclined to say, "Well, maybe she is just a projection, too." At the very least, that's the sort of objection I imagine would be raised.

But the couple in the house on Levin St. really do have a conversation with Harry, which prompts Cybil showing up.

This town is still weird in many ways, but its weirdness is perhaps more restrained compared to the manifestations we see in Silent Hill 1, 2, and 3.

The title has a spoiler warning, so you can leave out the tags in the thread if you like. : D

I think xavier95 is citing from what seems to be the most commonly accepted explanation of what is going on, being that the town as seen in the game is not the town at all, but merely the mental stage for Cheryl's peacemeal recollections as she relates her life to Dr. K. What we see, when playing as Harry, is a surreal interpretation of these events as she remembers them (and the Otherworld sequences are, in effect, Cheryl railroading her own narrative by forcing herself from one series of memories to the next (hence why you are running, rather than taking the more sedate and contemplative pace of the places where vital events are referenced). In this, therefore, the real town of Silent Hill is probably perfectly normal, and whatever happens in the game happens in Cheryl's mind, which neatly accounts for all weird and otherwise inexplicable things.

Of course, there's no solid answer here and alternate theories more in line with the main canon's town of supernatural power exist, and for all we know, they're every bit as valid. I personally prefer the theory I spelled out, but your mileage my vary.

I can understand why people would want to believe that theory. But it seems like there's evidence to suggest that there actually are things happening in Silent Hill. There's a suggestion that real people actually see Harry: those people include Michelle, the couple at Levin St., Lisa, etc. A lot of the game is (a) Cheryl's recollection of memories, but I think there are two more parts: (b) the actual manifestation of what she's thinking to some degree in Silent Hill, and (c) Cheryl's filling in of the memories.

What shows us what Cheryl is really like throughout the game are the echo messages and photos. Those provide a sharp contrast to the stuff going on as a result of (a), (b), and (c).

I think the theory you sketch out, what, precludes these important points.

But I am totally open to the idea that mileage may vary and people will interpret it how they will. I'm just making clear what I think.

[what]

I get you. It's fun to hash this one out because it really does make sense applying either one.

I think there's only suggestion that the real people who see Harry are actually real people. Gotta bear in mind the idea that the people Harry sees are more of Cheryl's mental conjurations.

The messages and photos are sort of like the real-life foundations which are the seeds of the recollections which manifest for Harry. They only tell part of the tale, and getting a clear picture of Cheryl insists that you look for the ties between the seeds and the surreal trees.

[Axiomatic]

I get you. It's fun to hash this one out because it really does make sense applying either one.

Yeah, this is true.

I think there's only suggestion that the real people who see Harry are actually real people. Gotta bear in mind the idea that the people Harry sees are more of Cheryl's mental conjurations.

At first I thought this because Cybil could just be a mental representation. But I think it's heavily suggested that people such as Michelle and Lisa see Harry. Let's say they are also mental representations.

What's the point of the Levin St. encounter? I imagine you could say that it's to conjure up Cybil, but I get the impression that the couple in Levin St are real, and Cybil is offered as a way to deter or send Harry off on another direction.

If it's true that the people are just mental conjurations, this deals a heavy blow to my interpretation.

The messages and photos are sort of like the real-life foundations which are the seeds of the recollections which manifest for Harry. They only tell part of the tale, and getting a clear picture of Cheryl insists that you look for the ties between the seeds and the surreal trees.

Absolutely. That's what I am saying. The full picture requires that we take into account the echo messages, which seem a good indicator of what actually happened with Cheryl's life, as well as all of the supernatural stuff.

[xavier95]

Too lazy to quote anyone right now, lol. @Axiomatic: I believe that Harry and the other people in the game are mere mental... I guess imaginary friends in a way. The way I picture it is that Cheryl lives in a fantasy world reliving the events of the game constantly and imagining her father is still alive. It is suggested that we see Lisa, but remember, she suddenly dies from internal injuries. So does that mean that she really saw Harry and Cheryl has some psychic ability to see her death from the lighthouse?

The way Cybil acted also seemed odd to me. At the end, she just says, "you died 18 years ago, but go ahead in there". I would think a real police officer would know something really strange was going on and go in with him instead of walking off. (I'm not even sure of how she could leave the island with the lighthouse on it.)

I think the couple on Levin represented not real people (although in Cheryl's fantasy, they probably are modeled off of real people), but instead her feeling of somebody else invading her home.

Also, just the fact that Harry's actions change the characters around him instead of the opposite says that they are most likely imaginary.

And the fact that clips of the sessions with Kaufmann affect the game, like the colors of the Levin St. house and certain other details.

The locations and people are probably all real, but their roles in the game are determined by how Cheryl wants them to act with Harry. That was how I saw the game. Although I've never thought of the characters being real and Harry being sort of like a solid echo that others see. That really is interesting and can be made to fit interpretation. That is good thinking there.

[WhiteClaudia]

what I mean is, maybe they're a reference to the individual's psychological state dictating what their monster appears to be. Maybe it never really changes at all. Maybe the person's state of mind does and it reflects that. What do you guys think?

Definitely agree. Considering the monsters appearance change based on how your "Harry/Cheryl" acts. Your choices in the psychological tests given my Kaufmann, determine most of the characters' appearances along with the Raw Shocks.

I almost wish they had done this same thing with the area design as well. Their actions determine the setting too, how the town looks and what the Otherworld looks like.

[xavier95]

I almost wish they had done this same thing with the area design as well. Their actions determine the setting too, how the town looks and what the Otherworld looks like.

They wouldn't have many options in changing the Otherworld. It has to be ice-themed. The reason is that the original game's main motif was fire and how it changes things. This game's main motif is ice and how it keeps things the same. Ice is very important here.

[gustavopi]

The way Cybil acted also seemed odd to me. At the end, she just says, "you died 18 years ago, but go ahead in there". I would think a real police officer would know something really strange was going on and go in with him instead of walking off. (I'm not even sure of how she could leave the island with the lighthouse on it.)

Cybil acted strange in SH1 putting a gun in the hand of a stranger at the bar. I think when Cheryl take the gun from Cybil, she tries a desperate talking (arguing) leading Cheryl to question her own mind that insist in self identify as Harry. I just remind that this trouble is not easy: we know who we are because there is a mental structure that answer this question every day, and when it fails, it's a big problem!

[xavier95]

Cybil acted strange in SH1 putting a gun in the hand of a stranger at the bar. I think when Cheryl take the gun from Cybil, she tries a desperate talking (arguing) leading Cheryl to question her own mind that insist in self identify as Harry. I just remind that this trouble is not easy: we know who we are because there is a mental structure that answer this question every day, and when it fails, it's a big problem!

Sort of lost me there. Cheryl didn't take the gun from Cybil. She was in the lighthouse the whole time. She wasn't Harry, she was imagining Harry looking for her. The reason why we play both characters isn't so much because we're her, it's also because there wouldn't be a game otherwise.

And yes, no real cop would give out their gun to a stranger. I always thought that this was because the writers weren't really thinking about that detail and made a bit of a psychology mistake, not because it was intentional.