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Gorgoth

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Playing the Devil's advocate

Post by Gorgoth on Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:22 pm

I finished Downpour just last weekend. I even got the platinum trophy just so I could ensure that I had seen everything there was to see in the game. It was a mixed pleasure to say the least.
If the various forums are anything to go by most of you seem generally pleased by Downpour. The only things you seem to complain about are technical issues, clunky combat and poorly designed enemies.

Initially I wasn't going to take the time to make any sort of lengthy review or commentary about the game, but seeing how none of you have pointed out the things that really bothered me about Downpour, I have decided to come out of lurking once more...because dammit, I won't let this shit fly!

I had high hopes for Downpour you see, hopes that were sundered. What's the most heart-wrenching isn't what it got wrong (as was the case with Homecoming), but what it almost got right, what it could have been. As unpopular as IGN's review has been among some of the fans I really have to quote them here:

"The most frustrating thing about Silent Hill Downpour (is) the fact that every now and then while playing through the game’s story, you’ll see signs of brilliance; sunlight hinted from behind the overcast sky."

On one hand Downpour is the closest we have been to a "real" Silent Hill since the originals, but at the same time it also feels like the furthest. So what's the issue here?
what's keeping Downpour from being great?

The big problem is that Downpour simply isn't disturbing.

"That's it?" you probably ask.
Some of you will be shaking your heads as you read this. Others will nod in agreement.
Chances are that you felt that there was something off about Downpour, something lacking, something you couldn't quite pinpoint.
I've seen some people blame this on Daniel Licht's score, but trust me, that's not the problem here.
The reality of the matter is that this is caused by some pretty fundamental, albeit more underlying issues.

Take the creature designs for instance: It's not a coincidence that they have been so universally criticized for their poor design...it's because these fundamental issues have affected the game as a whole, creature design included.
Ultimately, these issues boil down to the development team not really understanding what it is that makes the human mind tick (and consequently, what makes Silent Hill work).
So here’s what this post is about: uncovering the underlying problems that hampered Downpour, explaining why it wasn't disturbing.

Now, there are some issues I'm not going to bring up even if I could have talked extensively about them:
- I'm not going to bring up the art direction in general. I have already expressed my strong dislike for the game's visual style and I don't feel like going through it again.
- I won’t bring up topics like pacing and editing because those topics are just too big for this kind of post.
- I won't bring up the technical issues because everybody must've gotten it by now. I won't bring up the combat either for the same reasons (besides, I thought it worked better than in Homecoming).
- Finally, I won't bring up the creatures specifically, because like I said, their bland designs are just symptoms of more underlying problems....but I'll get back to that.

First of all though, let's start with what I genuinely liked about Downpour (after all, I wouldn't have been as passionate about this if there weren't any redeeming features):

Mythology

More than anything else, Downpour gets the mythology right.
I'm not just thinking of how Downpour fits into the established universe, but also how the game is structured, how the characters interact with the world. The symbolism, for instance, felt spot on because you really get the sense that Murphy is confronting his personal demons rather than some random horrors.

The little details are all there too, like how backstories are hinted through obscured notes, how Silent Hill itself seems to toy with the protagonist, how the other installments are cleverly referred to etc.
Everything feels so...correct, according to the rules, by the book.
In short, it feels very canonical.

Story

I liked the story and characters of Downpour. While you do get some of the detached, Lynch-style characters of old, you also get a more responsive and emotive protagonist. It was quite refreshing to hear Murphy react more negatively to all the crazy shit happening around him.
Also, I really liked the possible endings. More than almost any other installment the endings in Downpour complete and complement each other rather than detracting from one another (I can't tell you how tired I am of the Good vs. Good+ debate).

Puzzles

The puzzles were nice. Downpour has a good combination of practical and metaphysical mind benders. They're maybe not as good as the ones in the originals, but certainly much better than the past few titles.

Exploration

I liked the town. It was nice to be able to just take a stroll and explore the town itself once more. The inclusions of side quests were neat too, cause you got to see more of the town's history. Also, while I may not have liked some of the aesthetic choices, at least the town itself felt real and lived-in. In short, one of the major positive features of the game.

The topic of exploration does, however, bring me to the stuff I really didn't like about Downpour.

Otherworld

The otherworld, along with the creatures, is pretty much the heart and soul of the series, the main feature and selling point.
Traditionally it has been a place to showcase some extremely bizarre and macabre sights and set pieces, allowing you to explore a living, physical nightmare. In Downpour the otherworlds were probably the biggest wasted potential altogether.

The otherworlds of old were typically rusty, rotting, decaying, meaty, bloody visions of Hell, settings that naturally invoked a creepy atmosphere. When I first heard that Downpour had a water theme, I was intrigued to see if it could deliver some equally disturbing sights...and it didn't. Downpour, like Shattered Memories before it, was just too damn sterile and not particularly disturbing at all.

Oh sure, there was plenty of surreal imagery (M.C. Escher would be proud), but there was nothing disturbing, nothing more deeply unsettling. Water in the ceiling may be strange and out of place, but it's not something we can react to more emotionally. Take these scenes for example:

Downpour otherworld:
Image

Silent Hill 3 otherworld:
Image

Yes, The one in Downpour sure seems more bizarre and otherworldly (and immersion-breakingly implausible) but it's not as creepy and ominous as the one from SH3, now is it?

Now don't get me wrong here (after spending my precious time writing such a long article I really don't have the patience for accusations of Team Silent fanboyism). I'm not saying that the water theme was a bad idea, and that it should have looked more like the old games. It's just that even with something as "sterile" as a water theme, Downpour really should have portrayed some actual unpleasant scenery or set pieces, like this:
Image
(awesome artist by the way. Check out his DA page: http://ryohei-hase.deviantart.com/)

Another big issue here is that you don't really get to explore, let alone even see what little there is of the otherworld: Most of the time spent in the otherworld are devoted to linear chase sequences, meaning that the otherworld for the most part is reduced to a series of corridors.
This brings me to the next topic:

Chase Sequences

On one hand I can see why they decided to put some chase sequences in Downpour, seeing how Murphy is "running from the law" and all that. Also, both SH2 and 3 had a chase scene thrown in, so it wouldn't be too out of place, right?
Here's the thing though: The few chase scenes in the old games were more about the scare than any sort of action gameplay, but in Downpour it's the other way around. In a game that focuses on exploration, puzzle solving and slowly mounting terror, these repetitive, action-oriented chase sequences really are jarringly out of place.

The numerous chase sequences make for some pretty awful pacing as well. Take SH3 for instance. The one, single chase scene in SH3 was scary as SHIT because it was something completely unexpected, something you weren't prepared for. It was also made more scary because it was contrasted with the slow, claustrophobic scene that led up to it.
In Downpour the numerous, repetitive chase sequences became predictable and grew old real fast. It also didn't help that you probably died several times due to their trial-and-error design, making them annoying and irritating as well.
Ironically, while the developers said that Downpour would have something new and unexpected around every corner "keeping the player on their toes, and trying to keep things unpredictable", the fact is that we just keep getting the same boring old chase sequences over and over.

Yeah, you may argue that the chase sequences add some much-needed frantic pace to the game, and while that may be right they certainly could have put a little more thought into it.
If they absolutely had to have chase sequences in the game, they should just have made it more like the ones in Shattered Memories. In SM you were thrown into a large maze-like environment that you had to explore and navigate your way out of whilst avoiding the unpleasant inhabitants. Also, If you played cautiously, you could use stealth to avoid some of the creatures rather than just piss bolting through the entire level.
Point is, you weren't just running down one long corridor.

The problems I have mentioned so far, however, are merely nitpicks compared to the much more fundamental problem:

The complete lack of ambiguity

"Fear of the unknown", the term coined by H.P. Lovecraft, has always been a vital part of what made the Silent Hill series so damn unsettling. Silent Hill, much like Lovecraft's work, was based on the observation that something we can't predict and don't understand can be more deeply unsettling than a clear and present threat. Oh, but don't take my word for it, even the developers themselves have stressed this point several times. Thing is, I don't think they fully understand this concept, that they don't really get it.

Before continuing, let's look at some totally unrelated pictures before i explain further.

Image

Image

Which of these images disturbed you the most? Which image caught your attention and refused to let go? Was it the one with a clear, present danger? Was it the scary monster?
I'd wager it was the one that you couldn't quite figure out, the one you had to think about for a while.
Let's now consider some examples from the Silent Hill games:

Remember this scene? yeah, you do.
It's one of the most haunting set pieces in the series. Why was it so disturbing? Because it made you pose a lot of questions, perhaps not even consciously:

Image
"Who or what are these people hanging here? Are they mother and child? Are they dead, or are they merely dolls, lifeless to begin with? just what the hell am I looking at and why is it making me uncomfortable?"

Let's look at a similar scene in Downpour:

Image
"Yup...He's dead alright. No mystery there, then."

Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of you reacted to the poorly designed creatures. Let's take a look:

Image
"What is this thing? Is it human? Does it want to hurt me? Is it even sentient? WTF am I looking at?"

Image
"It's a....dude with prison tattoos and metal clamps on his face. Looks dangerous though."

These examples demonstrate what I think is the major problem with Downpour...While it looks like Silent Hill superficially (and not even that sometimes), it lacks the ambiguity and abstraction necessary to make it feel like Silent Hill.

The reason the original titles were as disturbing as they were, is because they left a lot to your imagination. They used a lot of abstraction and distortion to make you think of troubling, macabre subjects without explicitly showing them. Having to actually figure out these grotesque visions gave them a much deeper impact than they would have had if you were just shown explicit, graphically violent and gratuitous images.

In Downpour there is virtually nothing that instills doubt and uncertainty, nothing that makes you think more deeply of what you're seeing. No half-living maybe-humans undulating in pain behind iron bars. No creatures whose impossible anatomy reveal neither intention or sentience. No letters and phone calls from deranged madmen with broken psyches....We're just being subjected to plain old scary monsters, a lot of unquestionably dead prisoners, and whilst in the otherworld, not much at all.

Closing comments

Developing a new Silent Hill title that manages to please both fans and critics alike is a difficult, maybe even impossible task, because:

- The fans are very particular about what they like about Silent Hill.
- Everyone has a different opinion on What Silent Hill really is about.
- These opinions are more often than not contrasting in nature.

At the end of the day it all comes down to opinion.
Some of you may care more about the mythology, the story and characters. If so, Downpour may have been one of the better games in the series for you...provided of course that you didn't expect the cult to make an appearance, or for the plot to continue from the previous installments, in which case (ah, fuck it).

To me, however, Silent Hill is all about the feel, the disturbing atmosphere, the sights and sounds that affect you physically as well as emotionally, the same unique genre of venereal horror you find in the works of Giger...
Image

Bacon...
Image

and Beksinski.
Image

To me Silent Hill is about the haunting sights and sounds that makes your skin crawl and blood pump.
This is why Silent Hill 2 is one of my all time favorite horror games, because the Pyramid Head rape scene jolted me more than any cheap jump scare ever could.
This why I consider Silent Hill 4 to be one of the better installments, because even when Silent Hill itself hardly was in it the unnerving atmosphere more than made up for it.

Ultimately, this is also why Downpour disappointed me:

It didn't make me feel anything.
Last edited by Gorgoth on Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:51 pm.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Gorgoth

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Playing the Devil's advocate

Post by Gorgoth on Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:28 pm

PS. While I say that there was nothing ambiguous or disturbing in Downpour, particularly in the creature department, there was one glaring exception: The wheelchair guy.

Image

This creature was pretty damn effective precisely for the reasons I mentioned above:
It was hard to figure out his distorted features and it wasn't entirely clear what his motives was.
Seeing how this is the only creature that managed to get some ambiguity going, however, I think this was due to coincidence rather than deliberate, insightful design on the developers behalf.

Also, feel free to link this to other forums if you wish.
 
 
 
 
 
 

keeps

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Post by keeps on Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:35 pm

I like this analysis.
Last edited by keeps on Wed May 02, 2012 9:05 pm.
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Lingo

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Post by Lingo on Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:48 pm

This is pretty much the definitive critique of Downpour although I do think you're being kind with the story, which features a protagonist so secondary to the narrative going on around him that the game has to constantly rely on cheap tricks and contrivances to propel him forward through the plot.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by devil hunter on Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:07 pm

I'm tired to write something longer, but you can't rely on fucked up imaginery too much either. I know that some people will strongly disagree with me but SH 3 doesn't give me much stuff outside of disturbing imaginery. I can't even bring myself to finish it when I start playing it these days, I get bored by it.

Downpour has good characters (I'm not saying that SH 3 didn't had good characters, it had them), adds something new to the mythology without fucking it up, the story is good, it has sidequests, a lot of stuff to find and explore etc.
Monster designs are definietly the weak point of the game. but I won't compare Downpour's imaginery, stuff that makes you think etc. to other games in the series because each SH game has a different feel.
I look at each game and don't compare them to the others too much, because like I wrote before, each has different feel, its ups and downs.

What matters in the end is that I enjoyed the game and I'm planning to play it again, I'm not gonna compare how disturbing it is compared to 2 or 3, what's the point?
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Playing the Devil's advocate

Post by OneFreeMan on Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:34 pm

Well I loved Downpour and is among my favorites. I do however admit that the design of the monster is poor.


Gorgoth wrote:On one hand Downpour is the closest we have been to a "real" Silent Hill since the originals, but at the same time it also feels like the furthest.


The fact that its further away from the original is for me a good thin. The reason why I love Downpour is because it is different from the rest and very unique.


Gorgoth wrote:The big problem is that Downpour simply isn't disturbing.


I disagree. It had it's moment. While it wasn't consistent it certainly had an atmosphere.
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Yuki

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Post by Yuki on Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:48 pm

Gorgoth wrote:The otherworlds of old were typically rusty, rotting, decaying, meaty, bloody visions of Hell, settings that naturally invoked a creepy atmosphere. When I first heard that Downpour had a water theme, I was intrigued to see if it could deliver some equally disturbing sights...and it didn't. Downpour, like Shattered Memories before it, was just too damn sterile and not particularly disturbing at all.


Please remember that--and I'm not putting in my personal opinion on any of the games' Otherworlds here--the rusty, bloody, meaty Otherworld is Alessa's. Reusing it would just make it eventually become bland, and using it for other characters would go against the idea that the Otherworld manifests itself differently for each person.

I loved the surrealism of Murphy's Otherworld, to be honest. It could have been a bit dirtier, perhaps, I'll give you that, but one of the final chase sequences definitely creeped me out. Additionally, I don't see anything scary about the picture you chose from deviantART.

In Downpour the numerous, repetitive chase sequences became predictable and grew old real fast. It also didn't help that you probably died several times due to their trial-and-error design, making them annoying and irritating as well.
Ironically, while the developers said that Downpour would have something new and unexpected around every corner "keeping the player on their toes, and trying to keep things unpredictable", the fact is that we just keep getting the same boring old chase sequences over and over.


I agree the chase sequences got a little bit old. I still had fun with them, but the Void didn't work out as well as it could have.
REVEAL SPOILER
I didn't like the design, but I like the symbolism behind it: Murphy's running from his guilt and rage.


In Downpour there is virtually nothing that instills doubt and uncertainty, nothing that makes you think more deeply of what you're seeing. No half-living maybe-humans undulating in pain behind iron bars. No creatures whose impossible anatomy reveal neither intention or sentience. No letters and phone calls from deranged madmen with broken psyches....We're just being subjected to plain old scary monsters, a lot of unquestionably dead prisoners, and whilst in the otherworld, not much at all.


I personally liked the Dolls because they're not as obvious as the Prisoners or (to a degree) the Screamers, but we also had the entities in boxes that Murphy knocks over during the chase sequences; they look humanoid to be and they pulsate but we don't really know what they are.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

nur_ein_tier

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Post by nur_ein_tier on Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:19 pm

devil hunter wrote:I'm tired to write something longer, but you can't rely on fucked up imaginery too much either. I

not sure OP was saying that, just that the imagery was not as effective as in other titles.

In places where the scenery was fucked up, like the clock tower shit, it was fucked up in a way that broke immersion and was too Escher-y.

Personally, I think an Otherworld could work just fine without blood and rust, and I was excited to see what would be done with water. Alas, I was disappointed.

Same with the Void. Reminded me of the things I disliked about SHSM Otherworld.

I think my least favorite was the one with the cars on the cieling, the whole thing looked so bland to me.

I enjoyed playing Downpour, but I didn't find it scary or disturbing. I can see much potential in it, but a lot of that potential is unrealized.
Developing a new Silent Hill title that manages to please both fans and critics alike is a difficult, maybe even impossible task

Quoted for truth.
Initially I wasn't going to take the time to make any sort of lengthy review or commentary about the game, but seeing how none of you have pointed out the things that really bothered me about Downpour, I have decided to come out of lurking once more...because dammit, I won't let this shit fly!

I think I noticed a few of them: http://alchemillahospital.net/is-shoddy ... lent-hill/

Also, feel free to link this to other forums if you wish.

Have linked it here, also::
http://alchemillahospital.net/shc-gorgo ... -downpour/
ImageImage
 
 
 
 
 

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Playing the Devil's advocate

Post by TheCrazy on Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:01 pm

I liked what I read here. You sustained your idea very well and that's a good thing to see.
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Post by Perry Mason on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:33 pm

As much as I love Downpour I do agree with your analysis as far as the overall fright factor goes, Gorgoth. But people need to realize this game was more of a learning process than anything. Not only is it Vatra's first major game but in a way a click of the refresh button for the franchise after the different attempts of the past, I'm sure if Vatra gets to develop the next game it will be a lot more scarier in terms of atmosphere and imagery, it's like when you cast a new James Bond you don't get to see everything they have to offer in the first one as they are just dipping their toe but they step it up for that second one now knowing what they are capable of.
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Post by devil hunter on Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:07 am

@nur yeah I see what you mean. That wasn't a big problem for me because I knew even before the game was released that it won't be scary for me or disturbing. I rarely get scared by horror games now, I play them because they're so fun to play, same with horror movies basically, I watch them because they're fun to watch.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by keeps on Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:32 am

Evoking horror isn't solely a generical thing. Being clever about subconscious art and having its meaning be less blunt than the emotional reaction it evokes is important with the heart of Silent Hill and the nature of human experience. This concept of feel in the right mind and hands can exist in full tandem with the ground-level plot as well as encompassing it.
Last edited by keeps on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:39 am.
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Gorgoth

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Post by Gorgoth on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:32 am

Glad to hear you folks liked the analysis

Perry Mason wrote:As much as I love Downpour I do agree with your analysis as far as the overall fright factor goes, Gorgoth. But people need to realize this game was more of a learning process than anything. Not only is it Vatra's first major game but in a way a click of the refresh button for the franchise after the different attempts of the past, I'm sure if Vatra gets to develop the next game it will be a lot more scarier in terms of atmosphere and imagery.

That's exactly right, Perry Mason.
Considering this is Vatra's first attempt at Silent Hill, they actually did a pretty good job.
Vatra has a lot of potential, it's just that they could use a little more insight about this particular topic.
If they take some constructive criticism into account, their next title will be all the more solid for it.
...Provided of course that Konami doesn't switch developers again.

keeps wrote:Being clever about subconscious art and having its meaning be less blunt than the emotional reaction it evokes is important with the heart of Silent Hill and the nature of human experience. This concept of feel in the right mind and hands can exist in full tandem with the ground-level plot as well as encompassing it.

You said it, bro!
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Andromeda on Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:47 pm

You definitely hit the nail on the head and basically said everything that I felt about the game. Especially about the monsters and the otherworld. It was too "clean" and it didn't hold the imagery that the nightmarish otherworld should hold. Water can be extremely frighting, especially if you project it in a certain way. Just overall lost potential there.

This is my least favorite Silent Hill game out of the series, for me. I just did not get the same feeling like I usually do and most of the time I was bored by the imagery. Nothing invoked fear or disturbed me which is a real kicker.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by captain crowbar on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:10 pm

I honestly can't find a single thing to disagree with. Except that, to a degree, the subject matter of some of the side quests was just a WEE bit disturbing. But not in the classic Silent Hill way. More like a better handling of the SHSM phone messages and texts.

The only really really good monster design was the blood squirting guys strapped to the big metal circles. The Doll's were pretty cool, but not disturbing or intimidating really.
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Post by nur_ein_tier on Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:00 pm

As for the wall corpses, I guess I don't have a problem with their design, per se, just the way they're used. The predictable spurting reminded me of SMB or SMB3 on NES, the way you have the wait out the fireballs from Podaboo and Bowser.

Andromeda wrote:Water can be extremely frighting, especially if you project it in a certain way. Just overall lost potential there.

This.
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Post by Meltdown on Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:22 am

Very thoughtful review. I appreciated it. That said, I must ask, what was your take on Silent Hill: Origins? Because frankly, I feel a lot of what you criticized about Downpour was addressed rather well in Origins. Namely the abstract, thought-provoking scenes and creatures. I am thinking specifically of the asylum rooms with the creepy dolls. Between the dolls and those rooms, it forces the player to think "What the fuck was wrong with the people who once inhabited these rooms?"

So. Gorgoth. I am not trying to derail your topic, but how do you feel about Origins in contrast to Downpour? As far as hitting that abstract horror mark.
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Post by devil hunter on Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:03 am

I guess we didn't found the water element scary, but to Murphy it was scary.

REVEAL SPOILER
It reminded him of Charlie's murder, and two of his shower encounters.


It wasn't scary to the player, but to the character....
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Gorgoth on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:53 am

Meltdown wrote:So. Gorgoth. I am not trying to derail your topic, but how do you feel about Origins in contrast to Downpour? As far as hitting that abstract horror mark.

Quite frankly, It's been such a long time since I played Origins that I can't say too much about it.
I guess it felt a little more like the originals simply because it looked a lot like them in general.
That being said I also clearly remember not being impressed by other aspects, such as the story.
Like I said, I don't remember too much of it (which in itself is not a good sign).

devil hunter wrote:I guess we didn't found the water element scary, but to Murphy it was scary.

REVEAL SPOILER
It reminded him of Charlie's murder, and two of his shower encounters.


It wasn't scary to the player, but to the character....

Well that's exactly my point, Devil Hunter!
This is the sort of thing that could have made for some actual disturbing imagery, not just for Murphy but for the player too.

REVEAL SPOILER
So basically, Murphy's son was found dead in a lake.
This really should have been the focus of one, if not several set pieces in the otherworld.
It didn't have to be much...it could have been something as blatantly simple as an aquarium with a creepy, childlike doll inside.

Point is, seeing how traumatic this particular event must have been for Murphy, it really should have manifested itself as something more taunting and uncomfortable than just water in the ceiling.

It's just like nur_ein_tier said, really.
Downpour had a lot of unrealized potential.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Q. Valintyne on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:45 pm

Series spoilers below:
REVEAL SPOILER
I've never lost my daughter.
I've never killed my wife and repressed those memories.
I've never (possibly) been used to birth God.
I've never been trapped in my apartment.
I've never seen my brother drown.
I've never been a trucker nor do I plan to be.
I never had to deal with the guilt of murder, the pain of losing my son, nor have I ever been in jail.


The characters are the point in any bit of literature, game, or movie. Sure you'll have a "reaction" to it, but you can't truly feel the pain of the character. Ever. It isn't real, for one thing. Second, it's a character-driven story. It's not a "player-driven" one (Shattered Memories was in a way, but I digress).

Games like Dead Space are designed to scare the player. The creatures hold no symbolism to Isaac at all. In Silent Hill's case, the world and the creatures are character-specific.

What you wrote is great, I'll admit. It's a lot of shit to digest and read. All games have unrealized potential if you look at it. They are what they are. Concepts go unfulfilled. Things are scrapped because of time or technical limitations. It happens.

And one more thing: the water is every-fucking-where. Not just in the ceiling.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be attacked by you since I don't agree with you, but whatever.
 
 
 
 
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