The most heartbreaking thing about this collection is...

[Levito]

The fact that yet another entire generation of gamers will now pass on 2 amazing games.

I know many of us hardcore Silent Hill fans are disappointed that we can't play Silent Hill 2 and Silent Hill 3 on our modern consoles and TV's without them being completely broken. However at the end of the day we still have our PS2, PC and Xbox copies. We know these games inside and out and they are probably so engraved in our hearts and minds that it would be impossible to forget them. We've played through them so many times that we could probably play through the entire series in our heads.

However I know I'm not alone here when I say that I have many friends at are also gamers, but have never played Silent hill 1-3. I've tried for many years to get a few of my friends to try them, but am always met with reluctance. Be it the PC version is hard to get working on modern PC's, or they don't have a PS2 or xbox anymore. For someone that hasn't played the series it requires some amount of effort that not everyone is willing to put in to track down an old copy, especially if they unsure if they'll even like it.

That's where this collection was going to come into play. Not only would it make getting a brand new copy as easy as driving down to the local game store, but gamers could even play them on their current consoles and HDTV's!

I have one friend in particular that is a creative writing major that's always wanted to play Silent Hill 2 because of it's acclaimed story specifically, but hasn't owned a PS2 for years. He was planning on picking this collection up, but after reading all the bad news he has yet again decided to pass, and I can't blame him.


The Silent Hill series is pivotal in gaming's strive to be considered "art", and the most important entries in this movement have not easily available for many people to play, and now that an easily accessible version has been released, it's completely broken.


That's the most disappointing thing about this collection for me hands down, I personally just wanted more people to experience these classics.

[Jack Ketch]

If your friends really wanted to, they could easily pick up a used ps2 for cheap or ebay the pc versions and google how to get them to work. If they don't care enough to do that, they wouldn't be the sort of people to get invested enough in the story anyway. That sounds snobbish, but it isn't. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, as they say.

[Levito]

If your friends really wanted to, they could easily pick up a used ps2 for cheap or ebay the pc versions and google how to get them to work. If they don't care enough to do that, they wouldn't be the sort of people to get invested enough in the story anyway.

I don't think that's fair at all, not everyone has a PS2 or even an SDTV these days. Not to mention not everyone is willing to back based solely on a another persons recommendation.


You're not wrong, but there's more to it then what you're saying.

[Perry Mason]

And this is why this is more of a complete atrocity on Konami's part than any other game release, the HD age is the first age of TV where most of your old electronics from the past will not work properly on your TV set leaving a lot of history practically wiped away, doing HD remasters of games is the only way to preserve the history of games for future generations and Konami completely destroyed this by releasing such a shoddy release. There is no excuse for this at all and I hope it really costs them.

And for those who blabber on "Wah! Get the PC version, we don't need an HD Collection!" Quit being selfish, in ten years do you think those standard-def TVs, videogame systems and games are really going to still work? You may not care but this is one of the main reasons why videogames will never reach the stature of the film industry because the film industry preserves itself for future generations, the game industry seems more interested in a quick fix and everything is forgotten about when the next sequel or big thing comes out and don't start babbling about Steam either, is that really where you want videogames to go? You might as well imprint the program on toilet paper, it's insulting that great works can only be treated with the dignity of porn, great games deserve the best treatment you can give them and HD Collection could have been that treatment but what Konami did just tainted that in a major way.

[Levito]

You may not care but this is one of the main reasons why videogames will never reach the stature of the film industry because the film industry preserves itself for future generations, the game industry seems more interested in a quick fix and everything is forgotten about when the next sequel or big thing comes out and don't start babbling about Steam either, is that really where you want videogames to go? You might as well imprint the program on toilet paper, it's insulting that great works can only be treated with the dignity of porn, great games deserve the best treatment you can give them and HD Collection could have been that treatment but what Konami did just tainted that in a major way.

I really shouldn't respond to this because I don't want to go off topic, but I feel I need to. Physical copies are not superior to digital distribution, not in this day and age. I know a lot of the console folk hate it because they're not as used to it, but that's were the industry IS going to go. And you know what? If all Konami did was release Silent Hill 2 and Silent Hill 3 as PS2 classics on PSN, it would've been a 1000 times better than the travesty that is the HD collection.

Also, gaming will indeed always have trouble preserving itself, that's because games are always built on the latest technologies, and "latest technology" becomes outdated quickly. So you're always going to run into "preservation issues" if you are talking physical copies.

[NarooN]

Yeah, digital is the way to go.

Your internet's down? Good luck downloading that game or any updates. The server goes down forever? You can't get the game ever again. Physical disc? You can play it whenever you want, usually with no installs besides the initial installation. Would much rather have an actual disc, whether it be PC or console, than digital any day of the week. I'd rather install the data from the disc (which is always faster than downloading said data) and then play the game off the disc, or at least my hard drive if I'm on PC.

And what of people who live in areas with really slow internet? They can't download these massive 10+GB games on Steam all the time. Yeah, digital distribution is coming, but I don't think the physical aspect is going anywhere any time soon. Having a disc or a cart is simple, effective, and you can count on it. When the PSN got hacked last year, I had tons of games and DLC that I owned, but couldn't access for fucking months just because the network was down. There's up-sides to digital, but a lot of downsides too.

[Levito]

I didn't say digital is the way to go, I said it's the future whether people like it or not. Their are down sides to DD yes, but their are just as many downsides to physical copies. (Implying that something like Steam would go down forever is like complaining that a physical copy can be stolen, it's highly unlikely it'll happen)


You mentioned servers going down forever, well that affects physical too. You realize that even if they patch the HD Collection and make it everything we want that we're still stuck in a rut later on right? The patching servers for HD Collection wont be up forever, so at the end of the day we're still stuck with a broken POS if we still don't have a harddrive with the patch on it later down the line.










Also guys, please keep this on topic.

[what]

the HD age is the first age of TV where most of your old electronics from the past will not work properly on your TV

Do I have a special HDTV? Because my PS2 works flawlessly on it. So do all my old consoles. In fact, I have never had a component not work with it. Or, are you being melodramatic?

[_Bleaux]

Yeah, digital is the way to go.

Your internet's down? Good luck downloading that game or any updates. The server goes down forever? You can't get the game ever again. Physical disc? You can play it whenever you want, usually with no installs besides the initial installation. Would much rather have an actual disc, whether it be PC or console, than digital any day of the week. I'd rather install the data from the disc (which is always faster than downloading said data) and then play the game off the disc, or at least my hard drive if I'm on PC.

And what of people who live in areas with really slow internet? They can't download these massive 10+GB games on Steam all the time. Yeah, digital distribution is coming, but I don't think the physical aspect is going anywhere any time soon. Having a disc or a cart is simple, effective, and you can count on it. When the PSN got hacked last year, I had tons of games and DLC that I owned, but couldn't access for fucking months just because the network was down. There's up-sides to digital, but a lot of downsides too.

I almost feel like you were talking about me there Naroon. :'D

But yeah, all of the above happens to me. So from personal experience digitizing video games has been the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

I bought Mass Effect 2, and it took me several weeks of downloading before I could even play the game with all it's content. So people like me are hit hard by the "Oh just patch it" mentality as well that the developers and publishers are beginning to pick up in this day and age. It takes me about 5 hours to download 260 MB (a DLC pack I got on ME2) unless I download it overnight. Which is harder then it sounds, since I usually have to go to bed early due to college and work.

And Steam. Oh my F*** steam. Don't even get me started on that, my internet connection isn't fast enough to connect to the community server so the 40 or so games I have on them (half of which are single player) that I bought before I moved out are inaccessible because Steam's like, "How do we know you didn't pirate these games?" or "An internet is required to play this game." What the hell, I'm just trying to play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. the first one doesn't even have multiplayer! Same thing for Amnesia, I never got to finish it because since Steam can't tell all my friends what I'm playing, apparently I shouldn't be allowed to play it.

Not to mention then I buy hard copies of PC games, come home and steam rears it's ugly head and was like, "Lol that CD only had a download code on it, get bent." So I literally now am stuck with pretty much just Minecraft and Warcraft 3 on my computer. Since well, Blizzard coped out and I have to connect to the internet to play Starcraft on Single Player too now.

So I actually find the whole, "Digitize everything" attitude rather offensive, not saying that directly to you, but hey there are -a lot- of people out their just like me.

The thing that's the worst about it, is high speed internet is literally right down the block, but the company doesn't want to run 400 foot of cable to my house so I'm screwed.

Edit: And sorry Levito, but if I don't vent about it every now and again I start to get really angsty.

[kyleb]

I'm disappointed with the fact that this collection will lure many people into playing shoddy facsimiles of the games. Surely more people will play these games now compared to if the collection hadn't been released, but now some will wind up having played what they rightly expect to be new and improved versions, only to be left with what are quantifiable inferior experiences to what we all enjoyed so many years ago. This is still a glimmer of hope in the possibility that Konami might get their act together and do quality ports in the future though, or go under and sell the rights to someone who will.

[_Bleaux]

I'm disappointed with the fact that this collection will lure many people into playing shoddy facsimiles of the games. Surely more people will play these games now compared to if the collection hadn't been released, but now some will wind up having played what they rightly expect to be new and improved versions, only to be left with what are quantifiable inferior experiences to what we all enjoyed so many years ago. This is still a glimmer of hope in the possibility that Konami might get their act together and do quality ports in the future though, or go under and sell the rights to someone who will.

Most people I know that have never played the two games all seemed to have enjoyed the game profusely.

So I don't think it really seems 'degraded' to any of them. In fact a few of the people said they were the best games they've played in a while.

[Levito]

Sorry you've had such a tough time with Steam, Bleaux. I own literally hundreds of games on the platform and have never once had an issue. I also live in one of the most northern places in Canada(seriously, search "Whitehorse Yukon" on Google maps) and my download speeds are great, takes about and hour and a half to download 20 gig games sometimes.

I'm disappointed with the fact that this collection will lure many people into playing shoddy facsimiles of the games. Surely more people will play these games now compared to if the collection hadn't been released, but now some will wind up having played what they rightly expect to be new and improved versions, only to be left with what are quantifiable inferior experiences to what we all enjoyed so many years ago. This is still a glimmer of hope in the possibility that Konami might get their act together and do quality ports in the future though, or go under and sell the rights to someone who will.

Couldn't agree more.

[kyleb]

What the hell, I'm just trying to play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. the first one doesn't even have multiplayer!

Sure it does, not that it was ever popular by any stretch, but here is a server list. Regardless, all the games on Steam can be copied to disk and played without an internet connection on whatever computer you like, you just need to get that computer to internet connection to activate them first. The same goes for most download services, as does all the stuff sold on Xbox Live and PSN, and many PC games sold as physical copies these days also require online activation. I do my best to buy versions of games which don't suffer such limitations whenever the option is available within the same price range, but I'd miss out on a lot of gaming if I avoided such products all together, even if I didn't buy games from online distribution services like Steam.

[_Bleaux]

Sure it does, not that it was ever popular by any stretch, but here is a server list. Regardless, all the games on Steam can be copied to disk and played without an internet connection on whatever computer you like, you just need to get that computer to internet connection to activate them first. The same goes for most download services, as does all the stuff sold on Xbox Live and PSN, and many PC games sold as physical copies these days also require online activation. I do my best to buy versions of games which don't suffer such limitations whenever the option is available within the same price range, but I'd miss out on a lot of gaming if I avoided such products all together, even if I didn't buy games from online distribution services like Steam.

Unfortunately, that is not an option for me since I'm stuck in this position. Otherwise I'd do that, I mean my wife has a super awesome gaming rig computer and we haven't been able to use it since we moved in except to platform as a giant Nintendo Emulator.

And I live in the boonies, so all we get is Satellite internet. Have a download allowance and everything, if you skip over that, boom 56K speed connection. Download allowance is only about 300 MB too, which is extremely easy to use up with any sort of browsing.

[kyleb]

So I don't think it really seems 'degraded' to any of them.

Of course these new ports don't seem degraded to people who never played the earlier versions, or even people who have but don't have any eye or ear for detail. That does nothing to change the fact that the games have been quantifiably degraded in many regards, as has been documented throughout this forum and elsewhere. Surely you don't need me link you to examples?

And I live in the boonies, so all we get is Satellite internet. Have a download allowance and everything, if you skip over that, boom 56K speed connection.

All you need to do is go somewhere that you can get a good internet connection to download the games from, put them on a USB thumb drive, burn them to disk, or whatever, and bring them back to install them on your computer at home. From there, even a 56k connection won't take long to authenticate a game.

[Matt S]

Well said, OP. People will play this and say, 'fuck that!' and never play a SH game again. Way to go, Konami! You fucked yourselves and don't care

[_Bleaux]

So I don't think it really seems 'degraded' to any of them.

Of course these new ports don't seem degraded to people who never played the earlier versions, or even people who have but don't have any eye or ear for detail. That does nothing to change the fact that the games have been quantifiably degraded in many regards, as has been documented throughout this forum and elsewhere. Surely you don't need me link you to examples?

Nah, I don't need a link on that. I understand, just I wanted to point out that it's not the case that everyone whose never played the games before that are playing these games aren't writing the series off as being a bad series unlike how it was implied earlier in this topic.

Just trying to take the affirmative. You can't really have a discussion if everyone just hops on the same side. Otherwise everything becomes chest bumps and fist-pumps about how uniform everyone's opinion is.

Plus, I encountered a bit proving the fact false, so since no one on here seems to be playing the games for the first time, someone has to speak for the people who are enjoying the games.

Edit: That in no way means I don't think they should improve the games, because they should.

[kyleb]

It seems you've only proven a strawman false, as nobody here has suggested "everyone whose never played the games before that are playing these games aren't writing the series off", or that people playing these games for the first time on the 360 and PS3 are writing the series off for that matter, the latter of which being what I'm guessing you intended to say.

[_Bleaux]

It seems you've only proven a strawman false, as nobody here has suggested "everyone whose never played the games before that are playing these games aren't writing the series off", or that people playing these games for the first time on the 360 and PS3 are writing the series off for that matter, the latter of which being what I'm guessing you intended to say.

That was poor wording on my part, I did mean that not everyone that's playing these games for the first time are writing the series off. In fact, out of all the enraged people I've met, I have yet to meet any of them who have outright said, "Silent Hill sucks, I don't want to try it ever again!"

But that notion is more directed toward statement's like these...

Well said, OP. People will play this and say, 'fuck that!' and never play a SH game again. Way to go, Konami! You fucked yourselves and don't care

This post presents itself in a very forceful way that makes it feel like he meant 'everyone'. I know quite a few people though who are enjoying the games as I said.

Then again, it just also doesn't settle well with me the outlandish claims that the series has been killed by a few botched remakes.

[Levito]

The series is absolutely in trouble, that's not an opinion it's a fact. Not because Team Silent isn't involved or any other of the crap that's been said for years by overly negative fans.


It's the pants-on-head retarded publisher that is Konami. Between this botched release, barely advertising Downpour at all, and Book of Memories being delayed a day before it was supposed to be released the series is falling into obscurity.


If Downpour sells well then there shouldn't be anything to worry about, but if it doesn't, there most certainly IS cause for concern.