Is the cult still operating?

[The Gentleman]

REVEAL SPOILER

At one point in my planning of Despoiled Heart, the plot had links with with the dissapation of the cult after the events of Silent Hill 3. I eventually dropped the idea but recently I thought: "Would the cult still be operating after the failure of their plan to birth their god?". So I thought I'd open this up for discussion.

Personally I think the cult wouldn't be gone, but maybe recessed into the background, into hiding so to speak. Obviously with Vincent dead I imagine their financial power would've suffered. So in my opinion, not gone, but in hiding, especially seeing as we had that note in SH5 about Douglas revealing the activities of the cult to the wider world (though whether you consider this canon I imagine is pretty contested).

[WhiteClaudia]

REVEAL SPOILER

This is a very good question. I've seen this one discussed before and have wondered it for awhile. But I would also agree that despite some claims, I think they are still around too. They might be getting low on numbers with followers but are still around. I dont think their failure in SH3 would stop them. If anything another would take over in Claudia/Dahlia's place and try over again, though how is still left undetermined, but Im sure they have their ways. It seems that in the events of SH: Homecoming they were still in "operation". The only problem I see is with the different Sects. As far as we know most of the people (who we knew) involved with the Sects are currently dead as of the latest game (including the Sect of Shepherds Glen), but it's very possible that others could have taken over. Simply, there's a lot of cult members that we were never introduced to (less important ones). I guess we MIGHT have to wait untill Downpour, but that depends on when that game is supposed to take place as it might be based somewhere in the past.

[ERROR]

After the deaths of Vincent, Claudia, Jimmy, George and Toby, the Order, according to Joseph Schreiber, was dissolved but still operates "beneath the water's surface." Meaning—with only a handful of active members remaining, it lacks any real leadership, and undoubtedly won't be operable again until probably a decade later, as what happened before after SILENT HILL.

[Purramid_Head]

After the deaths of Vincent, Claudia, Jimmy, George and Toby, the Order, according to Joseph Schreiber, was dissolved but still operates "beneath the water's surface." Meaning—with only a handful of active members remaining, it lacks any real leadership, and undoubtedly won't be operable again until probably a decade later, as what happened before after SILENT HILL.

This.

I do think it could resurface, but the damage is done with Douglas's expose and the bad rep it probably has now. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some solitary practitioners who disagreed with the Order, that are still around too. The Order was very much like folk Catholicism. I'm sure the beliefs will continue. As long as someone believes the cult/religion will never die.

[SiLeNt_DaRkNeSs]

After the deaths of Vincent, Claudia, Jimmy, George and Toby, the Order, according to Joseph Schreiber, was dissolved but still operates "beneath the water's surface."

Who was george and Toby again? they sound familiar. Haven't played in a while, so I'm hazy on who they are, what they did, and how they were introduced...

[Purramid_Head]

After the deaths of Vincent, Claudia, Jimmy, George and Toby, the Order, according to Joseph Schreiber, was dissolved but still operates "beneath the water's surface."

Who was george and Toby again? they sound familiar. Haven't played in a while, so I'm hazy on who they are, what they did, and how they were introduced...

www.translatedmemories.com/tome.html

[Wooden Plank]

Well, since all of the higher-ups are dead, they'd probably be nothing more than a bunch of ragtag fanatics.

Though, they might rise back to power in the next SH game. I can see it now;

Silent Hill IX: The Cult Strikes Back

[Shadedarkan]

It was my impression that the after Dahlia and that failure there were no more 'higher' ups. Vincent was never a real believer to begin with. He was in the whole thing for the money and easy life. Claudia was a true believer as was Walter Sullivan and they are both gone.
Shepherd's Glen was never a true sect of the Order anyhow. When you read all of the books concerning the Order you find this out. The founders of Shepherd's Glen wanted out in my opinion but knew they probably never really would be able to. Only the four families actually had any part in the rituals in that town. Even then, Judge Holloway says later that the Order had to be resurrected in 'full force'. It would seem that Silent Hill still had plenty of believers and followers in the Order and that they simply lacked someone to focus them and give them direction which leads me to believe the vast majority of Order members are severely lacking Order rituals and rites.
After the events of Homecoming I'm sure that there are considerably few people left who know all the rites and history of the Order anyway. It looks like the Order is going to slowly die out of the series. I mean, the water prison is gone, 4S has disappeared, the Wish House orphanage was torched, Shepherd's Glen's books and information are lost to the earth and no one even knows where the 'true' churches in Silent Hill are anymore.

[Purramid_Head]

There are three sects of the Order, Dahlia and Vincent are merely one sect.

[Shadedarkan]

Three sects? SH 6 was the only game to go into any great detail about the division and history of the Order. It never states how many sects there are. SH 6 does explain the hierarchal ordering of sects. The explanation only recognizes three levels of branching. The original Order, containing the Mother of God, is the Mother Sect. Any branch of the Mother Sect turns into the second level, I don't remember the name given to these branches. Then any branch from a second level becomes a third level sect, of which I can't remember the name given either.
By this explanation, Dahlia and Alessa belonged to the Mother Sect. By reasoning, so too should Claudia and Vincent have belonged to this top level division.

[Purramid_Head]

4 goes in depth to the sects in it's supplmentary material in the link I've provided which you have ignored. The games before then, including the Play Novel, hint at the sects. Dahlia and Vincent belong to the Holy Woman's sect not the Holy Mother's. You're information is wrong. The Holy Mother sect believe god will be descended from the rock mentioned in SH4, the Holy Woman, a woman of course. The Valtiel sect venerates the Valtiel as closest to God and was created as a intermedatery between the two opposing sects. It's sect founder is Jimmy Stone who is the basis of the PH and is pictured in SH2. This is all covered in source material.

[Shadedarkan]

4 goes in depth to the sects in it's supplmentary material in the link I've provided which you have ignored. The games before then, including the Play Novel, hint at the sects. Dahlia and Vincent belong to the Holy Woman's sect not the Holy Mother's. You're information is wrong. The Holy Mother sect believe god will be descended from the rock mentioned in SH4, the Holy Woman, a woman of course. The Valtiel sect venerates the Valtiel as closest to God and was created as a intermedatery between the two opposing sects. It's sect founder is Jimmy Stone who is the basis of the PH and is pictured in SH2. This is all covered in source material.

I assume by 'link I've provided' you mean www.translatedmemories.com? I looked at it and read through it. The information is incomplete and a good deal of it is contradictory to itself, much less the rest of the games. I'll collect and organize the information necessary to present here.

[Purramid_Head]

It doesn't contradict anything. I think you're greatly misinterpretating the material. This is established canon.

[NarooN]

The Book of Lost Memories is an official document, it doesn't contradict anything. It might contradict theories you've came up with, which doesn't really mean anything other than you might wanna rethink whatever it is you're confused about, lol.

[Augophthalmoses]

4 goes in depth to the sects in it's supplmentary material in the link I've provided which you have ignored. The games before then, including the Play Novel, hint at the sects. Dahlia and Vincent belong to the Holy Woman's sect not the Holy Mother's. You're information is wrong. The Holy Mother sect believe god will be descended from the rock mentioned in SH4, the Holy Woman, a woman of course. The Valtiel sect venerates the Valtiel as closest to God and was created as a intermedatery between the two opposing sects. It's sect founder is Jimmy Stone who is the basis of the PH and is pictured in SH2. This is all covered in source material.

I assume by 'link I've provided' you mean http://www.translatedmemories.com? I looked at it and read through it. The information is incomplete and a good deal of it is contradictory to itself, much less the rest of the games. I'll collect and organize the information necessary to present here.

How is any of the information contradictory? Give some examples.

[Asylum-Alice]

IMO, the cult is probably still around, though "operable", I don't understand. From what I gathered in 3, the cult believes their "god" to be dead, killed by unbelievers. Claudia was undoubtedly working on her own in rebirthing "god", so it's possible that nobody but Vincent and Leonard knew what she was up to, which may possibly indicate she was of low rank within the group, otherwise, wouldn't there have been others who would have worked with her? I don't know if it's just me, but I think the cult is probably just there, worshipping god, too scared to birth it again in case another group of "disbelievers" were to come back and kill it all over again.

[poorjack]

Isn't it true that Heather has children now? In my theory, that is how the story line with the cult will be re-introduced. A remaining member or two will try to get the god out of one of her kids. She becomes her father, and has to find her kids in Silent Hill, completing the circle.


That's my theory at least.

[Asylum-Alice]

Isn't it true that Heather has children now? In my theory, that is how the story line with the cult will be re-introduced. A remaining member or two will try to get the god out of one of her kids. She becomes her father, and has to find her kids in Silent Hill, completing the circle.


That's my theory at least.

It's not a bad theory, but in the end of SH3, Heather used the Aglophaotis or however you spell it, to expell god out of her, then Claudia consumed it to give birth, so at this point god is no longer inside Heather. Besides, genetically speaking, I don't think she'd be able to pass it on to her kids, as she was not born with it or developed it through any sort of "family history". I don't know about Heather having kids, but she is human and her life would continue past the games so I guess it's possible.

But no, I don't think it'd be possible for Heather's children to have god in them, nor does Heather still have god in her.

[poorjack]

I took it as god (the spirit of Alessa) has always been in her, and was just manifest as a fetus when Claudia did some ritual or some such occult practice, and that Alessa may be present in her kids, as they are indeed the children of Alessa if Heather was indeed a fragment of Alessa. If not even that, the Cult may want Heather's kids for some sort of revenge ritual for killing god.

It is worth thinking about at least.

Heather has kids. Heather is still alive. And Silent Hill doesn't seem to like letting people go. Harry got out. But he didn't escape. The Cult had been chasing him for years before SH3.

[Asylum-Alice]

I took it as god (the spirit of Alessa) has always been in her, and was just manifest as a fetus when Claudia did some ritual or some such occult practice, and that Alessa may be present in her kids, as they are indeed the children of Alessa if Heather was indeed a fragment of Alessa. If not even that, the Cult may want Heather's kids for some sort of revenge ritual for killing god.

It is worth thinking about at least.

Heather has kids. Heather is still alive. And Silent Hill doesn't seem to like letting people go. Harry got out. But he didn't escape. The Cult had been chasing him for years before SH3.

It's possible, and I won't dismiss your theory, but as I understood it the god is a physical being inside of Alessa, and so when Heather "vomitted" out god, it was gone for good.

Again, I'm not sure what source you got the information from about Heather for sure having children, since we haven't seen her since 3, but it's possible, and the cult wasn't technically hunting down Harry; they were hunting down Alessa/Heather. Harry would've just been the easier of the two to track.

Which brings me to another point I brought up earlier. I don't think the cult really had much hope in bringing back god, because wouldn't they have found them sooner? I mean, Claudia found them just with hiring a PI, so that kind of gives the impression that the cult wasn't really even looking for them. And just because Harry was hiding, doesn't necessarily mean someone was looking.... But I guess that's a little beside the point here.