Why I Believe Silent Hill: Homecoming Should Stand Alone

[what]

You don't know what the MDT is, do you?

MDT states that there are multiple worlds already in existence in other dimensions and people are being transported to and from them by supernatural forces.

There are two very different interpretations of dimensions as they pertain to Silent Hill. There's the camp that views every different appearance of the Otherworld as its own dimension, from as few as three to as many as five or six. That is probably not correct and it is not widely believed, yet it happens to be Twin Perfect's strawman in their stupid video.

The generally-accepted and almost certainly correct version is that there are two: the real world and the Otherworld, which can take on any kind of appearance at any time and is not subject to the rules and limits of objective reality. Both dimensions exist simultaneously and interact only in very limited ways. Multiple versions of the same place may manifest to different people, as the appearance of the Otherworld is highly subjective. One does not take over the other, though to the observer in the Otherworld it can very easily appear to be doing so. Given everything we know about the games, this is the only explanation which makes any sense, and it is the only explanation which even approaches simplicity because it almost never has to take the real world into account. It never has to follow any of its rules.

The above is Multiple Dimension Theory, the correct version of it, anyway, and you and your ministers of misinformation have been arguing against it without even realizing that all you've done is essentially restate it and pretend it's something new.

[captain crowbar]

The generally-accepted and almost certainly correct version is that there are two: the real world and the Otherworld, which can take on any kind of appearance at any time and is not subject to the rules and limits of objective reality. Both dimensions exist simultaneously and interact only in very limited ways. Multiple versions of the same place may manifest to different people, as the appearance of the Otherworld is highly subjective. One does not take over the other, though to the observer in the Otherworld it can very easily appear to be doing so. Given everything we know about the games, this is the only explanation which makes any sense, and it is the only explanation which even approaches simplicity because it almost never has to take the real world into account. It never has to follow any of its rules.
The above is Multiple Dimension Theory, the correct version of it, anyway, and you and your ministers of misinformation have been arguing against it without even realizing that all you've done is essentially restate it and pretend it's something new.

1. I agree with everything in bold.

2. I disagree with everything else, since the creators have said that it's happening differently than the way you describe it more than once.

3. Thus, I disagree with the MDT. My theory is different. Jeremy Blaustein said he thinks my theory is what's going on...a person's inner world is being projected onto reality, creating an altered reality. I have screen caps and everything.

[what]

Let's see those screencaps. All of them. Leave nothing out.

Not that it changes a thing. Your 'altered reality' is in no way a practical difference from a separate dimension. The point of contention I have is that it is obvious that a person who is not under the influence of the Otherworld sees nothing at all out of the ordinary, which means that objective reality is not being taken over by the Otherworld. The Otherworld is a subjective reality, through and through. Silent Hill 4 proves beyond any doubt that people in the Otherworld are not also in the objectively real world.

[captain crowbar]

I showed you everything I had already.

This stupid shit is going to make me late for work, but here it is again:

http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg5 ... bstuff.png

underneath that last post his response was "Always."

[what]

I expected the totality of your conversation with him, but all there is for me to see is where he agreed with you. Not that it gives any indication just what he is agreeing with. EDIT: I notice that you phrased the question so as to omit mention of the otherworld manifesting in the real world. Smart. You knew he would not agree with you if you added that part.

But, let's take a look at the other shots, shall we?



What I see here is a clear and total differentiation between reality and the Otherworld.



What I see here is him saying, in plain English, that he believes there are two worlds and that Silent Hill 4 implies that perhaps even more exist.

What I don't see in either of your screengrabs here is what, other than poor reading comprehension, could possibly make you think these statements agree with yours. At the very least he is admitting that a definitive answer is impossible, but the rest of it indicates that his feelings are far more in line with mine, that there is more than one world and they exist separately.

Seriously, I'm confused by why you thought these statements would be of help to you here.

[Purramid_Head]

The second world is the aftermath of the mental projections being bought into reality and reality being warped to accept them. Thus, real world and then eventually Otherworld(s).

As stated earlier, this is not and never has been the MDT.

You're confused. It is another world, in fact that's Harry's exact comment in the original script of 1.

I can tell you haven't researched much outside of SH where Owaku got his ideas, or you would know things such as astral projection.

[SLDT]

I'll go through this piece by piece. It's my favorite game of the series (well, it's up there fighting with 2), so I simply must defend it.

1.) It doesn't add anything to the overall narrative
Yes, this is because it's a side story. It helps set the tone for the history of Silent Hill's relationship with other nearby towns. For anyone who wondered how other towns in the area deal with having a bunch of crazy devil-equivalent worshippers nearby... Well, this is how. It also shows the circumstances of leaving the cult behind. You can leave the main sect, but you can't escape completely.

2.) Everything about the map is wrong
I personally mark this one up to game design. People thought Origins was pretty tame as far as non-team games go, but it still added things to the map. So did 2. And 3. Every game has its own needs and changes to be made. I don't think Double Helix did it as gracefully as they could have, but they undoubtedly had to get the approval of Konami. For all its faults as a corporation, Konami still contains a lot of people who are dedicated to the games and care about them more than just for their paycheck. So forgive them for a little artistic license, eh?

3.) The game isn't memorable and lacks substance
Maybe for you. I've thought over a lot of the game's elements, both story-wise and in terms of creature design. What you must understand is that the game does take a more modern approach to horror and is, of course, an American game. Therefore it's based on American horror. You'll see clear references to the Human Centipede, Hostel, and others. However, there are deeper bits of symbolism that you can only really get to when you look closer and think harder. Take Schisms, for example. Yes, they're split-headed, yes, they're a pendulum with legs, yes, they have one arm facing backwards. But they're also so pale, as though they never get any sunlight. Back in the days before mental illness was fully understood, if you had a child with a mental disability, you locked them away in your house. You didn't speak of them, you didn't speak to them, and as far as your relationship with them, you basically treated them the way Adam treated Alex. Schisms are heavily symbolic of Alex. Try looking into the other monsters more and you might find some interesting bits to take into consideration.

4.) The atmosphere and vibes are completely different
It's a different game made by different people with its own goals in mind and it's trying new things. One thing that strikes me more about this game than anything is the color casting of the settings. The fog world is blue while the Otherworld is bright and red. As we all know, the fog world in the original game was because of technology constraints being used for the story's advantage. Ever since that, the series has taken it and run with it through every game but two. (not sure why the falling ash didn't make it the same way, but I guess that's what Shattered Memories is for) In Homecoming, the fog world is dark, though, and not the bright white of the other games. In Homecoming, though, the fog world is symbolizing something rather different. Previously, it was just a realm of uncertainty where you felt somewhat safe, but you still had to keep your guard up. In Homecoming, the fog world is a sign that darker things are coming and that the town is becoming damned. Hence it's a bit darker than before. The Otherworld is red and much brighter than before because that's sort of where things are actually much clearer. It's easier to understand what's going on in the Otherworld of Homecoming. That's where the bosses are and that's where the revelations take place. But enough about that. I agree that the industrial wasteland theme is prevalent instead of a more toned-down world based on the real world, but then again so is the coal mine idea. As for the monsters, well, yes, they're more combat oriented and so are the game's controls. You're looking over the shoulder and, for the most part, you're pretty sure that Alex was in the military.

Conclusion
In short, it's a side story that took many different approaches from the other games. It did its own thing, even if its own thing didn't always quite work out (like Holloway's supervillain speech) With this in mind, no matter how much you say it isn't like the other games, it really doesn't matter. If people keep expecting nothing but Japanese games out of outside developers, they'll be rather disappointed. Come on, guys, we're getting a game from Europe next! Can't use that argument every time.

I appreciate this comment. It gives some very thorough counter-arguments to those which I raised in my original post. I also find it significant because it was the last comment posted in this thread that was actually relevant to the original topic. Can we please move away from this discussion about the "Multiple Dimensions Theory"? I'm sure there are plenty of other threads about it on this and other websites. I'm still curious what all of you have to say about the issues which I have raised as they pertain to Silent Hill: Homecoming's viability as a cannon title.

[what]

I'm done with it, and I apologize.

[Augophthalmoses]

4.) The atmosphere and vibes are completely different

I read this whole section and it just seems like a silly reason to include as a reason why Homecoming should stand alone. The first four each had different goals and takes on atmosphere. It's understandable some people like some takes in specific games more than others, but that's not really a good reason to disregard Homecoming from the main storyline. Not that I believe that Homecoming's execution was perfect mind you.

[Purramid_Head]

All the games have different atmospheres.

[captain crowbar]

The atmosphere I get from Homecoming is lonlieness, but not in the same way as like 2. It's more like he WANTS to find the people and help them, but can't. Simple thoughts I know, and it's probably all a no-brainer.

[Purramid_Head]

I actually went back and played 4 yesterday and it mentions Walter's created world and multiple worlds absorbing into it in the puzzle w/ the tablets. It explains the evil spirits.

[Mr.E.Nygma]

Silent Hill: Homecoming is canon. Deal with it.

[rollerfan222]

I don`t see why it shouldn't be canon, despite not being considered one of the best in the series, i think it is a nice addition to the town's and the order's lure overall. i may no have the best writing but its not ike the series would be "better" without it. imo its one of the best in the franchise, in many aspects.

[rollerfan222]

SH 4 has proof that it's all happening in another dimension.

I'm going with what Jeremy Blaustein said about it.

But everyone should agree that SH4 works on a different set of rules than every other game in the series. It probably does take place solely in a pocket dimension created by Walter's mad voodoo. Walter himself appears to be making the otherworld(s), and not Silent Hill...at least the way I see it.

exactly, i always thought that 4 used a different reality/otherworld system than the other games, and walter had very much to do with it, after all SH4 derives very far away from the main concept of the previous games. seeing everything from a different angle, i read in some article that SH4 was meant to be a totally different game not called silent hill, but that they tweaked it a little and stapled the silent hill name for sales. but thats just what i read.

[what]

i read in some article that SH4 was meant to be a totally different game not called silent hill, but that they tweaked it a little and stapled the silent hill name for sales. but thats just what i read.

The Room was intended to be a sequel to the other games from the very start. What you read was a relic of the days before Team Silent was unassailable.

By the way, instead of making a second post, you should edit your last one if you have more to add to it.

[Purramid_Head]

Silent Hill 4 says there are multiple dimensions within the Silent Hill paragdim. It states that when you put the cards in the wall. So, it works on the same set of "rules".

[Charles Phipps]

I think of Origins as non-canon because there's too many differences with the narrative as we know it. I don't think it's a BAD game, though, and exists fine in its own universe.

I think Homecoming is underdeveloped, not really contradictory to Silent Hill's narrative.

I, for one, would have LOVED to have a lot more insights into the Shepherd's Glen cult and want to revisit the town sometime.

FYI - I think Silent Hill's geography + the other dimensions is entirely subjective because Silent Hill warps its reality.

[Augophthalmoses]

I think of Origins as non-canon because there's too many differences with the narrative as we know it.

I'll never understand that line of reasoning, but whatever makes you happy.

And yeah, yeah, I know TwinPerfect's current excuse (until they inevitably change their theory) is that SH4 "broke some rules". They still don't know what the hell they're talking about and that will never change.

[Purramid_Head]

I think of Origins as non-canon because there's too many differences with the narrative as we know it.

I'll never understand that line of reasoning, but whatever makes you happy.

And yeah, yeah, I know TwinPerfect's current excuse (until they inevitably change their theory) is that SH4 "broke some rules". They still don't know what the hell they're talking about and that will never change.

I liked the part when they tried to use facts.