Based on a real life case? (SPOILERS!)

[gustavopi]

This is at list curious:

REVEAL SPOILER

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Ardell_Mason
She was diagnosed as heaving multiple personality disorder, as our Cheryl Mason.

Maybe someone of the creators team knew about and got the Idea... I don't have time now to research now, is this truth?

[what]

Cheryl didn't have Multiple Personality Disorder, or anything even resembling it. She's profoundly troubled, but she's not crazy.

Can you edit your thread title to include a spoiler warning, since we're talking about the game's climax? That way, we don't have a thread full of spoiler tags.

[Purramid_Head]

Not even including, that its under question if Shirley even had MPD or not.

I think she did have mental problems What, I don't think she had a disorder. She merely was acting out because of her troubled life.

[gustavopi]

Today this disorder got another name "Dissociative identity disorder" and is still a controversial / rare condition - good for writers! But it is very clear to me in SM that Cheryl cross over the borderline. The lost of a family, lost of father, bulling, drugs, frustrated sexuality, etc (she killed a guy), was a fatal combination for her ego. I read about a case like in a magazine, the daughter assumed the personality of the absent parent. It's very rare, but exist. Course I'm not a doctor, this is my view of the case. We'll need some psychiatrist to play this game and give his opinion...

[Purramid_Head]

That's silly, if you read enough books you can form your own opinions.

[gustavopi]

That's silly, if you read enough books you can form your own opinions.

So I'm doing. I meant a professional that already work with this subject, got experience, can give us a professional opinion, a different view.

Other question is: since the Shirley's case got some impact in the press (is a public case), did the SMs team used her as inspiration? Maybe someone read about and seen the coincidence Shirley Mason - Cheryl Mason... humm...

[Purramid_Head]

Harry Mason is the origin of the name Cheryl Mason.

[what]

But it is very clear to me in SM that Cheryl cross over the borderline.

I don't get how she can cross over a border she never approaches. Harry is not a personality of Cheryl's. She is her 'shattered memory', a construct of her childhood perceptions and adult wishes.

Cheryl's narrative, as we witness it, is a strange mental journey through what Cheryl wishes really happened. She believes that her father was a perfect superdad hero, and the reason her life has been more or less awful is because he wasn't around to protect her from all the bad things in life. She's telling Dr. Kaufmann about her bad memories, and I'm sure that her telling is fairly normal stuff. What we see is fascinating theater representing her memories, troubled past, and personal conflicts.

Cheryl's definitely got psychological issues, depression and obsessive tendencies are just the softball ones. But, she doesn't have multiple personalities or identities, nor is there any evidence of congenital mental problems. The game would not make any sense if we got into such exotic territory, because the whole point of the game is that you define what Cheryl's personality is. The whole game is designed around this. If you give honest answers, Cheryl is an avatar of you.

[gustavopi]

Well, What, dr. Kaufmann will disagree, so as Cybil, as you can see in the last dialogs:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/959241-silent-hill-shattered-memories/faqs/61227

Of corse he won't tell her: - you're crazy, don't you know... (crazy is not a good term)

When I play the game, I see all behind Cheryl's memories, and a memory is an interpretation of reality. Eg.: Many of demons chasing Harry are dressing like nurse's: probably nurses trying to stop Cheryl in a bad crisis.

The dialogs are carefully worked to create multiply interpretations - as all SH games - but fantasy about her father is far beyond a normal construction - is a 25 years old woman! Nobody in well conditions (even depressed) will deny his own father death. I'm not talking about a person that walk around thinking to be Barak Obama, is a condition of the mind where the patient got a severe disturb in the ego and the mind lost reference of the "self". She know that something isn't right (she's not stupid), but can't deal with.

Maybe "cross the borderline" isn't the right expression. But I'd like your appreciation anyway, What.

[gustavopi]

Before What comeback, I'll add some coments:

I was thinking about and I realize that things must be separated:

We begin the game with dr. in the front and there is no evidence of who we are. Than the saga begin with Harry crashing the car and starting the search for Cheryl. Than we are back to talk with dr. Kaufmann. The forms and even some jokes are to a married man ("Never cheated on your wife, really?"). We are Harry Mason at this time - this is a fact.

Why this happens? Whats wrong, she is pretending, she's telling a story, remembering bad dreams, she's totally nuts - it doest'n matter, because the doctor got the mission to put Cheryl back on track. He got in her story to lead her to a conflict, she must realize that the world is not as she see. That's the other side of the coin. Here is the polemic part.

This two facts are not conflicting, not in Silent Hill, that's why I still like the What's view of the game.

[Trauma]

Well, What, dr. Kaufmann will disagree, so as Cybil, as you can see in the last dialogs:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/959241-silent-hill-shattered-memories/faqs/61227

Of corse he won't tell her: - you're crazy, don't you know... (crazy is not a good term)

Dr.Kauffman is saying the exact same thing Ryan (What) just said. It's called avoidance, it's not indescribably uncommon for someone who has lost a loved one. She was 7 at the time and like Kauffman said- "What child at that age really knows who their parents are anyways". You're making this more complex than t has to be... I mean it's revealed around the climax that Kaufmann is a little off his rocker himself.

We begin the game with dr. in the front and there is no evidence of who we are. Than the saga begin with Harry crashing the car and starting the search for Cheryl. Than we are back to talk with dr. Kaufmann. The forms and even some jokes are to a married man ("Never cheated on your wife, really?"). We are Harry Mason at this time - this is a fact.

His exact quote is "You've been unfaithful, is that true?". This for the sake of setting up the climax.

Whats wrong, she is pretending, she's telling a story, remembering bad dreams, she's totally nuts

If you think a girl with a troubled life trying to find solace in the memory of their dead parent is nuts I'd hate to see what you think of someone like Charles Manson

All the game really is, is some girl with a troubled past- she acts out because of this. Has promiscuous sex, experiments with drugs, gets in with the wrong group of people, tries to fill in the blanks and even completely deny what happened. It's not unbearably complicated, and it happens in real life all the fucking time really. I don't even understand what you're even grabbing at- she doesn't have multiple personalities, she's just dealing with a loss the same way most people would at that age.

[gustavopi]

If you think a girl with a troubled life trying to find solace in the memory of their dead parent is nuts I'd hate to see what you think of someone like Charles Manson

All the game really is, is some girl with a troubled past- she acts out because of this. Has promiscuous sex, experiments with drugs, gets in with the wrong group of people, tries to fill in the blanks and even completely deny what happened. It's not unbearably complicated, and it happens in real life all the fucking time really. I don't even understand what you're even grabbing at- she doesn't have multiple personalities, she's just dealing with a loss the same way most people would at that age.

You're gonna hate me for what I'm gonna say: you seams like Cheryl taking Cybil's gun - you don't stop me!!! And she says: - ... you are Harry Mason... . Cheryl want's the truth, but the convenient one! (the dialogs may not exactly).

Your describing of Cheryl's is only one in a several possibilities of the game. I must confess that before initiating this topic I change my mind a bit after finishing two times more. She can be just a disturbed girl or a evil girl (I'll not say what she does, just believe-me!).

I'll not try to convince you of Cheryl's pathology, but I can tell you that this cliché story of people that do terrible things and has a sad story to justify he's acts it's a fantasy. Real life is much more complex, there is also people that has a worst childhood than Charles Manson and didn't killed anyone. But people like to think life is simple and if I tuck care my sun, he will be successful in his life. There isn't such guarantee: our mind is a complex system that may fail (normally in difficult situations), and terrible things can happen.

I don't see a cliché in this game, they really done the "homework" and the cases we have are near real cases, so I read it. Just don't try simplifying the game because you'll be missing the best part of it! I saw a movie that seams the game, to bad is brazilian and I don't think there is a english distribution: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1235548/.

[Trauma]

You're gonna hate me for what I'm gonna say: you seams like Cheryl taking Cybil's gun - you don't stop me!!! And she says: - ... you are Harry Mason... . Cheryl want's the truth, but the convenient one! (the dialogs may not exactly).

Lol Why would I hate you? I may laugh at your expense for making a mountain or of a molehill but surely you're giving yourself too much credit.

I'll not try to convince you of Cheryl's pathology, but I can tell you that this cliché story of people that do terrible things and has a sad story to justify he's acts it's a fantasy. Real life is much more complex,

Once again, she's not psychotic. This is the closest to real life a Silent Hill game will ever get lol,

Just don't try simplifying the game because you'll be missing the best part of it!

Are you for real?

The means is that the game is just one huge profiling tool and the ends is that Cheryl is simply a representation of ourselves. You're trying to make this more complicated than it is-you're wrong. Just accept that.

[devil hunter]

I saw it like this

Cheryl was holding onto the memory of her father, Harry you're controlling is her delusion. Kaufmann tries to help Cheryl let go of that painful memory, so they're exploring her memories, like what psychiatrists do.

[what]

If Harry was a delusion, it would imply that Cheryl believes he is actually, really alive. Which is why I think 'delusion' is precisely the wrong term to describe the Harry we see.

In essence, the game (save for the office) is her mind and Harry is her avatar. He is nothing more than that. He is a construct of her memories of Harry plus her own life experiences (importantly, those experience without Harry around). The world he explores is a disjointed narrative of her life's story, focusing on all the really bad parts.

Which sort of makes for a neat observation: Harry is made to follow the path of her history, but he can never catch up to her because he is years too late to do so. It is only once he arrives at the place she's in at that very moment that the game ends.

[devil hunter]

Didn't really knew how to express myself.

[gustavopi]

If Harry was a delusion, it would imply that Cheryl believes he is actually, really alive. Which is why I think 'delusion' is precisely the wrong term to describe the Harry we see.

In essence, the game (save for the office) is her mind and Harry is her avatar. He is nothing more than that. He is a construct of her memories of Harry plus her own life experiences (importantly, those experience without Harry around). The world he explores is a disjointed narrative of her life's story, focusing on all the really bad parts.

Which sort of makes for a neat observation: Harry is made to follow the path of her history, but he can never catch up to her because he is years too late to do so. It is only once he arrives at the place she's in at that very moment that the game ends.

Very interesting! I'll just add: Dr. K let the story goes on trying lead Cheryl's mind into a contradiction, it's a common strategy (my uncle is psychiatrist). Also group therapy is more efficient, but hardest to put in a game...

[gustavopi]

The means is that the game is just one huge profiling tool and the ends is that Cheryl is simply a representation of ourselves. You're trying to make this more complicated than it is-you're wrong. Just accept that.

Nobody here has "just" to accept anything here.

I write this topic and another one because, as I said, I read about and find a lot if similarities with the game. You can start by here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

Other very interesting idea is that Harry is an avatar for Cheryl's treatment, a tool of dr. K.. This will be some "lucid delusion" maybe by hypnosis, etc. never some simple case!

When I said that you shouldn't simplify the game is because you don't have much left by doing so. The very basics of the game is: it's Cheryl's run, not Harry's run. E.g.: the monsters change according to Harry's construction by Cheryl at the therapy's room with dr. K.. The A.I. engine is focused in what Cheryl will do (how she remember, to be exactly).

You can read it from the producer of the game:

http://www.silenthillmemories.net/creators/interviews/2010.02.12_hulett_gamer_grenade_en.htm

Or you can stay lost in your fantasies... ok, now I'm joking!

[Trauma]

I write this topic and another one because, as I said, I read about and find a lot if similarities with the game. You can start by here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

Cheryl doesn't have dissociative identity disorder, or multiple personalities. And you can't just look up a wikipedia page to automatically diagnose someone with such a condition. There is nothing in the game that indicates that she'd have a condition like that anyways. Like I told you, it's simple avoidance. It happens to plenty of people who have had loved ones die, most people including myself have experienced it.

Other very interesting idea is that Harry is an avatar for Cheryl's treatment, a tool of dr. K.. This will be some "lucid delusion" maybe by hypnosis, etc. never some simple case!

When I said that you shouldn't simplify the game is because you don't have much left by doing so.

You shouldn't over complicate the game, because then you get convoluted bullshit ramblings like this.

The very basics of the game is: it's Cheryl's run, not Harry's run. E.g.: the monsters change according to Harry's construction by Cheryl at the therapy's room with dr. K.. The A.I. engine is focused in what Cheryl will do (how she remember, to be exactly).

Duh? That's not Dissociative Identity Disorder, that's avoidance. As well as having a...y'know. Not very high opinion of her mother. What part of this are you not getting?

[gustavopi]

I said STAR with wikipedia because is a reference article. I'd read about in magazines, but it's in portuguese and aren't short. I don't think it's interesting, my intention wasn't an academic level discussion (I'm not a doctor).

When I read your text, it's seams that you are in avoidance. Even if we agree with another diagnosis (I gess ou mean avoidant personality disorder), we can ignore the symptoms that are common with a lot of conditions. If you have a persistent headache, you can't say there is nothing that indicates a brain tumor!

If you think is just avoidance, you can post your diagnosis and support it instead just depreciate my opinion. Do you think I cant read an article and have my opinion about the game? Yes, I can!