Silent Hill 1 Harry VS Shattered Memories Harry

[gustavopi]

If they do a sequel, they would be better off coming up with an original group of characters and story. Half-assing it just kept me from getting into it fully.

I don't see how it can be done, the story only make sense because there is another one behind. The fact of Silent Team wasn't involved let the game even more interesting. That's why this long topic exists: two views of Harry Mason.

Course you got the right to dislike as you want...

SM2 could be James locked inside a room of Lake View Hotel getting crazy... humm, seams like The Wall...

[TraceBASS]

SM2 could be James locked inside a room of Lake View Hotel getting crazy... humm, seams like The Wall...

This man would like to have a word with you, sir.

[gustavopi]

REVEAL SPOILER

I'm glad you came. Just turning up shows your commitment to the process. Good. I've read your notes. The other therapists didn't work out for you. I want you to know this will be different...

Ok, let's cut the bls! I have news to you, son: you're not who you think you are...

[captain crowbar]

If they do a sequel, they would be better off coming up with an original group of characters and story. Half-assing it just kept me from getting into it fully.

This kind of comment is usually a good indication that a person either did not play Shattered Memories at all, played it without paying any attention to what was actually going on, or is a Team Silent fanboy whose distaste for the game is reflexive, as Team Silent had nothing to do with its creation. Or, some mixture of the three. Clearly, you played with pre-existing bias, so your inability to enjoy the game was your own fault.

I liked the gameplay. I didn't like where my mind went when I was trying to compare it to SH1. It was like trying to compare a fantastic book to a cheap Sci-Fi channel movie based on it. I couldn't help but judge it based on it's similarities and differences to the original. Wasn't that their goal in the first place? Their whole marketing campaign was based around it being a "reimagining of the first Silent Hill".

And I'm not a Team Silent fanboy. I actually liked Homecoming, and SH4 was my favorite SH game, despite it only having a fraction of the original TS creators. I may be biased against Climax, though...I greatly dislike Origins, and SHSM was just ok.

[devil hunter]

You were doing it wrong then, it's useless to compare it to the SH 1. The point is to see how they reimagined the characters and the story, it was interesting to see how much have the characters changed, what are their new backstories etc.

[captain crowbar]

SM2 could be James locked inside a room of Lake View Hotel getting crazy... humm, seams like The Wall...

This man would like to have a word with you, sir.

OMG, that would be amazing...Henry as Walter's mental Avatar? I'd play the hell out of that game.

You were doing it wrong then, it's useless to compare it to the SH 1. The point is to see how they reimagined the characters and the story, it was interesting to see how much have the characters changed, what are they new backstories etc.

I honestly tried. If you read my review, then you should have seen where I purposefully tried to detach myself from the rest of the SH series while playing it just to be fair to the game. It made it enjoyable enough, but I also couldn't really get my heart into it as a result.

[what]

I liked the gameplay. I didn't like where my mind went when I was trying to compare it to SH1. It was like trying to compare a fantastic book to a cheap Sci-Fi channel movie based on it. I couldn't help but judge it based on it's similarities and differences to the original. Wasn't that their goal in the first place? Their whole marketing campaign was based around it being a "reimagining of the first Silent Hill".

And I'm not a Team Silent fanboy. I actually liked Homecoming, and SH4 was my favorite SH game, despite it only having a fraction of the original TS creators. I may be biased against Climax, though...I greatly dislike Origins, and SHSM was just ok.

Your mind wanted a straight-up remake, and that's not what you got. You wanted the blood and rust and the same story and same cardboard characters and the ability to hit things to death. But, that's not the game's fault, as Climax promised ahead of time that you weren't getting these things.

[captain crowbar]

Then why use the names of the characters at all? Why not just make a brand new story? I think it would have made the game much better.

The answer is simple: Marketing.

[devil hunter]

Because that's the whole point of reimagining. What if I take the basic story and characters and try to make something different, my own thing.

I think that the name Silent Hill alone would be good enough marketing for the game btw.

[captain crowbar]

I think that the name Silent Hill alone would be good enough marketing for the game btw.

Agreed. That's been proven by several titles in the series...people hear a new SH is coming out and instantly boner up.

Your mind wanted a straight-up remake, and that's not what you got. You wanted the blood and rust and the same story and same cardboard characters and the ability to hit things to death. But, that's not the game's fault, as Climax promised ahead of time that you weren't getting these things.

It's not that cut and dried. I liked the concept of ice as the element of choice this time around, instead of rust and blood again. I didn't mind not being able to fight (although the chase sequences were more annoying than anything...I don't think they were implemented well.), and I didn't want the story to be the same.

I did, however, want it to be more like a Silent Hill game than it was. It had nothing to do with what has already been established as the Silent Hill mythos. The developer's audacity with how they handled this thing was staggering. It was like they were flipping off all the other games, Team Silent, and all the fans. Usually, this sort of thing gives someone a few brownie points in my book, but it insulted me.

And the puzzles were retarded and that upset me.

[WisHouse]

And the puzzles were retarded and that upset me.

Correction. VERY retarded puzzles. After all the nightmarish puzzles that the first four games (okay maybe 1,2 & 3) had, that would MELT your brains (Ill NEVER forget the godamn piano puzzle from SH) and would make you spend several minutes trying to figure out what the fuck you are supossed to do, Climax comes in and brings these....uh.. puzzles that almost seemed they were taken from of those action shooters, like the latest tomb raiders.

[Augophthalmoses]

And the puzzles were retarded and that upset me.

Correction. VERY retarded puzzles. After all the nightmarish puzzles that the first four games (okay maybe 1,2 & 3) had, that would MELT your brains (Ill NEVER forget the godamn piano puzzle from SH) and would make you spend several minutes trying to figure out what the fuck you are supossed to do, Climax comes in and brings these....uh.. puzzles that almost seemed they were taken from of those action shooters, like the latest tomb raiders.

I gotta ask: have you even played a Tomb Raider game?

[WisHouse]

Yes sir. THATS why Im dissapointed with the latest TRs. You see I loved the classic TR, I almost played them all(except for Chronicles) but when Legend came out it was like 360 spin. Changes are good, but you should mess with the esence.

[devil hunter]

I did, however, want it to be more like a Silent Hill game than it was. It had nothing to do with what has already been established as the Silent Hill mythos. The developer's audacity with how they handled this thing was staggering. It was like they were flipping off all the other games, Team Silent, and all the fans. Usually, this sort of thing gives someone a few brownie points in my book, but it insulted me.

And the puzzles were retarded and that upset me.

There's nothing wrong with it being different from the other games, it was something different, which was a welcome change if you ask me.

[Augophthalmoses]

Legend wasn't any more "action shooter" of a Tomb Raider title than any of the other TR games post TR1 especially TR3. Even so Anniversary and Underworld did a great job of harking back to the gameplay concepts of the original game. Combat is rather simple and most of the enemies (save some bosses) are incredibly easy to take out and enemy encounters aren't that numerous so I don't see the issue.

But brushing them off as action shooters just really makes me wonder if you actually have played any of these games or if you're just overexaggerating (which is what I'm going with) because you possibly have a distaste of the latter titles for whatever reason.

Not to mention every single one of those titles are leagues better than the piece of shit that was Angel of Darkness.

Anyway, how on earth did you get the idea that the puzzles from SM are somehow derived or even comparable to any from the Tomb Raider series?

Because any avid TR fan knows that the vast majority of the puzzles in the TR games (yes even the Crystal Dynamics titles) aren't ones you can solve within a minute or so like in SM. They require much more thought than that. So enlighten me as to where you got this idea from.

[WisHouse]

Legend wasn't any more "action shooter" of a Tomb Raider title than any of the other TR games post TR1 especially TR3. Even so Anniversary and Underworld did a great job of harking back to the gameplay concepts of the original game. Combat is rather simple and most of the enemies (save some bosses) are incredibly easy to take out.

But brushing them off as action shooters just really makes me wonder if you actually have played any of these gamse or if you're just overexaggerating (which is what I'm going with) because you possibly have a ditaste of the latter titles for whatever

Not to mention every single one of those titles are leagues better than the piece of shit that was Angel of Darkness.

Anyway, how on earth did you get the idea that the puzzles from SM are somehow derived or even comparable to any from the Tomb Raider series?

For the simplicity of the riddle system. I did a random comparission, though not innacurate. I agree that OD was crap, Legend represented a major change in gameplay, but I wont technical on it cause this is an SH forum, Anniversary was a very good remake imo, and underworld was shit. But I wont go off topic anymore.

[Augophthalmoses]

Nothing in that post really explains anything about why the puzzles are comparable to Tomb Raider or how Legend "did a 360". You did a random comparison alright, but it's not a good one.

The puzzles in Shattered Memories save for the one in the school with Planet Observation center and what not require no real thought whatsoever and too many of them consist of "click on the handle, pull back on the analog stick" and so forth.

TR, on the other hand, requires you having to observe your environment, what to do with this piece of equipment, whether or not the approach you have in mind is going to work, and so on. Even the non Core titles manage to nail down this concept just fine. Tomb Raider as a whole is just an incredibly bad example to bring to the table when you're talking about overly simplified puzzles.

That's like trying to say Honda makes some of the crappiest, most unreliable and devalued cars in the automotive industry, but using the Accord as your example. Or saying Sega makes some of the most barebones fighting systems in existence but bringing Virtua Fighter into the equation. Or saying Riki Oh has so much absurd, exaggerated, and retarded humor similar to House of Flying Daggers or Way of the Dragon. It just doesn't work that way.

Anyway, as for SH1 Harry vs. SM Harry...it's hard to compare the two. Harry in SH1 has an established personality whereas with Harry in SM his is just based on the one you give him via the Psyche System. And his presentation is a part of Chery's imagination.

[gustavopi]

Then why use the names of the characters at all? Why not just make a brand new story? I think it would have made the game much better.

The answer is simple: Marketing.

I never see this working, nobody could do it yet in the world of entertainment - did you got an example? When a game or movie reach this point (a legend), you can just change it some way to make it better, it doesn't work. But you can take a different point of view...

[what]

I did, however, want it to be more like a Silent Hill game than it was. It had nothing to do with what has already been established as the Silent Hill mythos. The developer's audacity with how they handled this thing was staggering. It was like they were flipping off all the other games, Team Silent, and all the fans. Usually, this sort of thing gives someone a few brownie points in my book, but it insulted me.

I thought it was plenty fine as a Silent Hill game, and it didn't bother me in the slightest that it exists outside of established canon. In fact, I'm glad it did; it allowed TEAM STUPID the freedom to explore all kinds of new ideas without being constricted by the pre-existing rules. And, I would think, they paid honor to the main canon by acknowledging that their idea was incompatible with canon and therefore established right away that it exists in its own continuity.

You don't want to admit it, but you are, essentially, upset because you're not getting the same games over and over. You don't want new games to deviate at all from any pre-existing concepts. And, that's why games like Origins and Homecoming turned out so poorly: the writers wanted to go in different directions but were afraid that they weren't catering enough to people like you, so they crammed references in there so that it would fit your nebulous concept of what a Silent Hill game should be. The result was naturally bad.

That's why Shattered Memories thrilled me so much: it wasn't constricted by the mythos. It didn't have to follow any of the rules. And, what we got was (in my opinion and I'm not alone) a Silent Hill Team Silent would have been proud of. It is, in fact, superior in some ways to most of what Team Silent did. The first, third and fourth games are not half as interesting to me, and I even wonder sometimes if Shattered Memories doesn't hold a higher place in my heart than Silent Hill 2.

And, that's accounting for the flaws Shattered Memories really does have, such as the simple puzzles and inconsistent graphics. Then again, I find it kind of scary how awesome the game would be if it had been fully polished.

It does boil down to taste, in the end. I still have plenty of room in my heart for the Team Silent games, but Team Silent were not gods. Their games were not perfect, and I have ever only considered the second a real masterpiece. The third and fourth games, especially, have significant flaws that are frequently ignored. Well, they are now. As I've said many times, Team Silent ballwashing is a recent phenomenon. Time was, people thought with every new game that they lost their touch and didn't know what they were doing anymore. I know how to verify when people claim to have been fans from the start, all you have to do is bring that up and see if they remember it.

[Augophthalmoses]

To be fair Shattered Memories throws in just as many references (if not more) to earlier games as Homecoming and Origins have done.

The gameplay itself is the biggest deviation from the Silent Hill norm.