The hospital rooms that need interior decoration.

[Kyle Purrenhage]

When my sister was watching me play SH2 she told me that the rooms needed an interior decorator. Well she was talking about some of the hospital rooms. There were certain rooms that looked as though they had plastic over the furnature and on the walls if I recall. We both thought that it may have had something to do with an outbreak that occurred at one time. Then when I read someone's comment in a different thread mentioning the plague I had to think of those rooms with the plastic sheets all over everything.

I was wondering if those rooms with all the white plastic and such had something to do with the plague. I'm sure someone may have looked into it better than me, and could possibly tell me whether it does have to do with the plague or not... I'm learning about Silent Hill as I go, so I'm not trying to make up theories or anything I'm just trying to find answers.

Then I had a vague thought that came to mind with regards to Mary. It seemed like to me that she showed signs of being sick (or becoming sick) while she was in Silent Hill... I doubt that her illness has something to do with her picking it up while she was in Silent Hill, but I can't say for sure either. They didn't know what she had after all so it makes me wonder about that.

Let me know what you think.

-KP

[Wooden Plank]

The plastic is sterile. It is needed to resist Physical infection (ie; touching, saliva, blood.) It should be in a general hospital. But, Brookhaven is a Mental hospital...

[what]

"...wrapped in a cocoon of pain and loneliness..."

[TraceBASS]

Yeah - but I think Room C2 needs a new window.

[mumbler]

Yeah - but I think Room C2 needs a new window.

Really? Which room was that?

[TraceBASS]

Really? Which room was that?

The room in the Nightmare Hospital where, if you stay long enough, you hear breaking glass.

[mumbler]

Hmm, I did another playthrough the past few weeks or so, but I don't recall...
Though I remember a room like that in Alchemilla in SH1. The glass breaks when you walk around the room.

[Kyle Purrenhage]

The plastic is sterile. It is needed to resist Physical infection (ie; touching, saliva, blood.) It should be in a general hospital. But, Brookhaven is a Mental hospital...

That's why we were figuring there had to be some other reason for all the plastic.

Yeah - but I think Room C2 needs a new window.

It sounded like there was an angry poltergeist in there.

Hmm, I did another playthrough the past few weeks or so, but I don't recall...
Though I remember a room like that in Alchemilla in SH1. The glass breaks when you walk around the room.

There was one in SH2 as well. If I remember it correctly it looked really mucked up in there, or maybe I'm thinking of another room...

[Purramid_Head]

We don't know if that's how the "real" hospital is. Its a Silent Hill game. Its not going to have a beautifully decorated room with bright colors.

[Nomed]

"...wrapped in a cocoon of pain and loneliness..."

....That could describe any character in Silent Hill 2! Now just where did you get that quote...I know I've seen it somewhere before...

[Venithil]

We don't know if that's how the "real" hospital is. Its a Silent Hill game. Its not going to have a beautifully decorated room with bright colors.

That would actually be the creepiest thing of all. You go through all this decay and stuff only to find yourself in a room with silvery walls, pink flowers and windows and a freaking' rainbow painting.

Would make me understand and like a suicide ending far more.

[what]

"...wrapped in a cocoon of pain and loneliness..."

....That could describe any character in Silent Hill 2! Now just where did you get that quote...I know I've seen it somewhere before...

It specifically describes one character in Silent Hill 2. As a hint, it is a person describing herself.

I thought it was a neat detail in the storeroom where Maria and James reunite with the upturned shelves and the boxes spilled all over the floor. You can't see well in-game, but every one of those little boxes is wrapped in white, in the style of some of the hospital's rooms in the patient wings and especially the Day Room.

[Kyle Purrenhage]

We don't know if that's how the "real" hospital is. Its a Silent Hill game. Its not going to have a beautifully decorated room with bright colors.

But see that's why I was wondering. I wanted to know if all the plastic stuff is what they used all over the "real" hospital.

About the "interior decoration" that was something my sister said the rooms needed. It was all in good fun and she wasn't serious about it.

We don't know if that's how the "real" hospital is. Its a Silent Hill game. Its not going to have a beautifully decorated room with bright colors.

That would actually be the creepiest thing of all. You go through all this decay and stuff only to find yourself in a room with silvery walls, pink flowers and windows and a freaking' rainbow painting.

Would make me understand and like a suicide ending far more.

I think anyone would be considering suicide after seeing that. Here we are getting accustomed to the blood soaked walls and such, and then it's all pink flowers and rainbows--now the hospital is just completely flipping James on his a***. He wouldn't know what to think anymore.

"...wrapped in a cocoon of pain and loneliness..."

....That could describe any character in Silent Hill 2! Now just where did you get that quote...I know I've seen it somewhere before...

It specifically describes one character in Silent Hill 2. As a hint, it is a person describing herself.

I thought it was a neat detail in the storeroom where Maria and James reunite with the upturned shelves and the boxes spilled all over the floor. You can't see well in-game, but every one of those little boxes is wrapped in white, in the style of some of the hospital's rooms in the patient wings and especially the Day Room.

Good analysis. I had to think of how Mary said "cocoon" made me think she wasn't getting out of the cocoon she was in. A lot of stuff in that game is suggestive of transformation, death of course, and so forth. Just how butterflies are also symbols of such in Japanese culture. I guess you could even say that Mary had "transformed" if you consider Maria, but that's an entirely different topic.

Some other minor stuff in the game even makes me think of "The Silence of the Lambs" how James falls into what looks like a well, and how it first appears as though he can't get out of it. (Think of Buffalo Bill's victim) Then the room with all the dead butterflies in the apartments, (think back to Buffalo Bill's obsession with moths and butterflies.) Another entirely different topic, but food for thought...

[Purramid_Head]

I think its Mary is a moth and Maria is a butterfly. There's some Japanese things in it, but I am unfamiliar with that.

[Kyle Purrenhage]

That's an interesting thought. I'm not sure exactly what they were going for with the use of butterflies and such, but it would make a lot of sense for them to be in a game like Silent Hill. Well the butterfly can be a symbol of multiple different things: death, rebirth, and anything associated with a transformation of some sort. Death is another transformation and that certainly fits into SH. (The death of Mary would tie into this).

In old Japan a butterfly could be the soul of a human being, and so they are also tied into the psyche. For this, they can be of both good and bad omen which is something to keep in mind. Swarms of white butterflies were often feared in Japan because they viewed them as the souls of the dead. (Or those who would soon be dead). But they can also be viewed as the soul of a person who has been reborn. So when we think about how they're related to SH they can be viewed from a number of different perspectives, both good and bad.

There are a lot of themes in Silent Hill that are suggestive of the butterflies symbolism, but all of that would make for an entirely new thread. I read a lot of Japanese folklore and that's why I remember all this stuff about the significance of insects. They show up in some stories and legends, and so it was important for me to know about how they were viewed in the Japanese culture.

[Purramid_Head]

^ You know now that you mention it they used that in Fatal Frame II with the red butterflies. I think it's duality, Mary is moth and Maria is butterfly. It reminds me of the saying "Butterflies are beautiful but moths are monstrous." Either way, by what you're saying perhaps this lends credence to the idea that Maria may be a reincarnation of Mary.

[Kyle Purrenhage]

It reminds me of the saying "Butterflies are beautiful but moths are monstrous." Either way, by what you're saying perhaps this lends credence to the idea that Maria may be a reincarnation of Mary.

And what lends further credence to that idea is if you review the jail cell scene with Maria and James. Maria begins to flit between Mary's voice and her own voice in that scene. It makes her seem difficult to pinpoint and it does create a lot of confusion, but if you take the idea of reincarnation then it might be easier to pinpoint her that way.

[Venithil]

It reminds me of the saying "Butterflies are beautiful but moths are monstrous." Either way, by what you're saying perhaps this lends credence to the idea that Maria may be a reincarnation of Mary.

And what lends further credence to that idea is if you review the jail cell scene with Maria and James. Maria begins to flit between Mary's voice and her own voice in that scene. It makes her seem difficult to pinpoint and it does create a lot of confusion, but if you take the idea of reincarnation then it might be easier to pinpoint her that way.

Well, Mary and Maria have the same voice actor. James even notes that "even her voice" is almost identical. But, true, Maria gets all Mary-Like on James, so probably if I listened closely I'd even be able to tell its Mary and not Maria speaking

My personal take on Maria is that she is a rather complex being, not entirely whole, but a conglomeration in a sense, of lesser pieces - four or more in this case.

1) A real person. In Silent Hill 3, we find a poster that announces the "return of Lady Maria". James might've seen her show when younger or when sexually frustrated by Mary's sickness, or even just heard of her. This, as well as Maria's behavior in Born from a Wish, her being a normal target to town's monsters like any other person, and her initial absolute hate of being mistaken with Mary lead credence to the idea that there is indeed a real part to Maria.

2) James' own wishes and desires. Maria has things that James MIGHT have wished Mary had- openness, sensuality, something of a strong desire for him, and perhaps he preferred blondes . Most of all, Maria can (and has to be) protected by James, while Mary was a person James, ultimately, could not protect and, in a sense, failed. Failing Maria (namely having her damaged along the way, not helping her, not particularly caring for her well-being, and later getting her killed) helps James re-realize his faults towards Mary and yet also showns his own powerlessness relating to Mary's condition. During one's best to not fail Maria shows that he can and wants to do more than he was able to do for Mary, as well as that he cares about this person as much or more than he did about Mary.

3) The imitation of Mary's feelings or memories or a true reincarnation of Mary/part of Mary - Maria first is attracted to, and then, finally, desires and loves James. She also cares about Laura despite first not knowing who she even is, and then realizing she never really met her. Other than James and Laura, however, Maria doesn't care about anyone else in town and she just wishes to be with James. Maria hints at knowing too much (saying that she bets Lakeview Hotel was James' and Mary's special place, knowing James' name despite him apparently never introducing himself, and knowing Mary's dead despite James definitely NEVER mentioning it), and then outright showing she knows of James' and Maria's visit in Silent Hill.

4) This is the monstrous, evil (or maybe just confronting and antagonistic) part, Created either in response to James' own desire for punishment (if the town is benevolent), or as a temptation to make James fail his journey (if town is malevolent). This is the part that makes Maria something of an obstacle - she outright asks what James would do if he didn't find Mary, she directs him wherever he SHOULD go instead of letting him do what he wants, she doesn't actively defend herself from the monsters, she is at times mean and, most of all, she lets herself get killed when confronted with Pyramid Head - there's no way to save her. She doesn't move even as the Head beats her up - she reacts *only* to James' own decisions, lagging behind him instead of actively trying to reach the exit. Ultimately, this is what gives her her monstrous form.


I think that, the further they went into the city, and especially - with each of Maria's deaths, she became less and less of the first, and more and more of the fourth. This is proven by her own reactions - when they first meet, she actively discussess with James, talks to him, and opposes being called Mary or compared to her ("My name is Maria!" "All you care about is that dead wife of yours!").

Her first death visibly changes her. She no longer cares about what James thinks she is, she only cares if he wants her ("Then you're Maria?" "I am, if you want me to be (...) It doesn't matter who I am. I'm here for you James. See? I'm REAL"). She becomes teasing, elusive, and channels Mary's memories instead of being her own person. She also even more fails at any kind of intitiative, deciding to just wait for James to rescue her or for PH to kill her.

After that, we only see Maria one more time - for a moment before the PHs skewer her. She only wants either to punish and test James further by dying or she is only composed of (both the town's, Mary's, and imprinted from James) want for Mr. Sunderland (his name is the only think she keeps screaming).

And then we have a split.

1) Common endings (Rebirth, Leave, In Water) - what we meet here is a carbon copy of Mary to further taunt James instead of being the "real" Maria. She has no real personality to speak of, only mocking James, telling him she's better than Mary and either that he will never have Mary back or that he deserves to die, and then simply transforming into a suitable monster form. She's clearly a construct of town itself. James then meets with the real Mary, channeled Mary or at least the town's reward for him (except for Rebirth).

2) Maria ending - "purging" Maria of her own original self yet finding that this is what James wanted, the town instead creates another copy of Mary by taking Maria's "monstrous" part, adding to it it's imaginings of Mary's negative and "post-mortem" feelings towards James, putting the resulting hateful woman against the protagonist and then giving him the "real" Maria back. Thus, it is possible that while Maria from this ending is not exactly a true person, she is indeed "real" and not being one of it's creations, is truly capable of leaving Silent Hill (but that's the possible positive side to Maria ending).

[Kyle Purrenhage]

I think you made some interesting analysis, and especially with number 4 there. (The dreaded number in Japan. ) You almost made it sound like Maria could be a bit of a temptress in a way. How she's the one calling all the shots and such and directing him. And I think it worked because James wasn't from Silent Hill and he probably thought Maria was from that town so she would know more. Then again I found him to be easily misled too; just think of Laura who lured him into that one room in the hospital and then shut the door on him.

So do you think that she could be a reincarnation then? And that would explain why she could do the split between Mary's voice and her own? I think that basically everything you laid down is believable and I think anybody could really look at it from any of the four perspectives. (Or a combination of them). I think after playing Born From a Wish I was under the impression that Maria was a reincarnation of Mary, because it almost seemed like she might have been experiencing memories of James and such when she might not have even recalled meeting the man before. It's possible that she was having memories of experiences that she never had in her life. I had to think of people who undergo heart transplants. Some of those people have recalled having memories of events that they never took part in, or remembering people that they never met. Interesting stuff...

[Venithil]

^ As I said, while the four "main" points could be seen as valid each on its own, in my belief, Maria is all of these things at once, just in different portions at different moments in time. Maybe she starts with them all being equal, maybe she doesn't (Like when meeting James in Rosewater Park, she COULD be 25% the "real stripper Maria", 25% James' idealized version of his wife, 25% reincarnation of Mary and 25% Silent Hill creation/manifestation/monster, whereas whe becoming the main boss, she'd be 0% the Heaven's Night dancer and in majority the creation of the town itself).

She's composed of all the elements, but the amount of each element varies, and there's less and less of the real person every time she dies.

Only in the Maria ending, something may change, but Maria ending as every ending except In Water can be interpreted in optimistic and pessimistic ways, so presenting all of the opportunities again in a more developed and cleared way would probably just result in a giant, unreadable post.