Mary & James's stay in Silent Hill

[Purramid_Head]

It's clear from the way Mary spoke to James and having dealt with my own family issues similarly that Mary suffered from depression and hypertension due to being ill and James got most attacked.

I'm kinda hoping for no attacking, I don't think there need to be. Its just a video game lol.

[what]

Asserting something doesn't make it true.

For example, I'm still seeing how this theory works out if James himself never brings up how she used to stay at Brookhaven...even when he visits the hospital.

Or is that point going to be ignored too?

He blocked out everything regarding the actual circumstances of the last three entire years. He made himself forget something as important as the fact that he killed his wife. Why would he remember her staying here if that other, much more important fact, doesn't register at all?

Also: a lack of evidence is merely evidence of nothing.

And, if you think that all Mary suffered from was occasional mood swings, you ought to go through the game again and actually pay attention.

[Augophthalmoses]

Attacked? She just talked like a ***** to him. Nothing tremendously serious. Nothing more than that. Having mood swings is not something that's rare among people on their death bed.

Asserting something doesn't make it true.

So you kinda ignored the tidbit I brought up regarding James' total lack of any mentioning of her being at Brookhaven even upon him going there.

He blocked out everything regarding the actual circumstances of the last three entire years. He made himself forget something as important as the fact that he killed his wife. Why would he remember her staying here if that other, much more important fact, doesn't register at all?

Oh, this mental blockage card huh? This doesn't prove anything either. I mean he's able to remember that she and him had both stayed at Lakeview and visited Rosewater, but he just happened to block out her staying at Brookhaven? Even when he still acknowledges her having a disease. Taking your idea into account that would be incredibly odd how he's able to remember her having a disease yet not knowing which hospital she was in.

Dude, come on. I'm having a hard time buying that you're really serious about this theory.

[what]

She had a disease three years ago. They stayed at the hotel and the park before the time he falsely alleges her to have died. Thus, he would have no cause to forget these things. They don't contradict his false account. If he remembers that she stayed at Brookhaven, his story begins to fall apart and he'd have a reaction similar to when Laura first directly contradicts his version of events.

[Augophthalmoses]

For that to have happened there would need to be some evidence proving she had stayed there in the first place. But there is none.

[what]

There's nothing proving that she stayed there, and nobody has ever asserted that there is. There is evidence suggesting she did, though. There's evidence suggesting she didn't, too. I find the former more compelling. I've definitely not tried to prove that it's a certain fact, however.

All I've had to say is that it is a valid interpretation, and all you've done is prove that alternate interpretations exist, which I've never denied. If that's your goal, you've succeeded, though it's not a point anybody contended in the first place. If you're trying to prove that the interpretation is not valid, you've accomplished absolutely nothing.

[Purramid_Head]

You're right its all interpretative evidence. With SH you have to be a detective. There's no reason to be rude about video game disagreements, however. Being aggressive about it just makes it worse. It doesn't convince people. Discussing the evidence can have that effect but being respectful of other peoples' views is important. That being said What and I have a many healthy disagreements and I love to debate with him because he is very knowledgeable. Sometimes I am disproved, sometimes he is.

I presented a more neutral view of it, I don't think she stayed at Brookhaven. But I do love to hear the reasons why this theory is so prevalent and why people cling to it so often. I think What presented his side of the ordeal really well.

[Augophthalmoses]

It's pretty hard to view it as a valid assumption when all the "evidence" the theory is based around is mere speculation. Even more so when baseless theories like this are common among the Silent Hill fanbase

[Purramid_Head]

It's pretty hard to view it as a valid assumption when all the "evidence" the theory is based around is mere speculation.

Isn't that the same with God irl?

[what]

It's pretty hard to view it as a valid assumption when all the "evidence" the theory is based around is mere speculation. Even more so when baseless theories like this are common among the Silent Hill fanbase

Theories are, by their nature, highly-speculative. This includes every single one of your arguments to the contrary, as well: not a single one of them has been based on anything concrete. They are examples of your speculation and are tied to solid fact no more than any of mine. And, before you fly off the handle at that, I assure you that "this should be obvious" and "I can't believe such and such" and dismissing my evidence, once again, and in bold print this time so you can't miss it: these things are evidence of absolutely nothing.

If I type "Versimilitudo can prove this theory objectively wrong beyond any doubt, and this is why:", what does Verisimilitudo put behind the colon?

I predict it will be something that is actually 100% subjective, but I'm not a psychic, so stay tuned!

[Augophthalmoses]

And, if you think that all Mary suffered from was occasional mood swings, you ought to go through the game again and actually pay attention.

You're killing me. This guy has to be trolling.

[what]

That's almost like having an actual argument, I guess.

[Augophthalmoses]

Nobody said anything about mood swings being all that Mary suffered through. Obviously we all know

REVEAL SPOILER

that in addition to having a terminal disease James had killed her...that's a no brainer.

We both know you're not a total idiot so there really was no need to spell that one out for you. It just killed me considering how much you keep going on about me allegedly not reading anything you say.

[what]

To be more precise, if you think her mental issues were limited to mood swings, you haven't paid attention, or simply don't recognize the obvious signs of depression. I didn't feel it necessary to spell that out, until now.

[Augophthalmoses]

Only things that hint at her condition come towards the end of the game and none of them are any indication of serious mental issues unless you consider every single altercation a couple has to be signs of "mental problems".

If there are indeed some good examples then elaborate.

[what]

It appears you don't consider depression to be a serious mental health issue, but psychologists and psychiatrists definitely do.

[Augophthalmoses]

It appears you don't consider depression to be a serious mental health issue, but psychologists and psychiatrists definitely do.

If it's extremely severe then of course. However, if you consider hers to be a serious case then you're either playing around or have an very sensitive idea of what constitutes as extreme depression.

[what]

Let’s look at things Mary says, in person & her letters:

- I’m pathetic, weak. Not everyone can be strong.
- I don’t want to cause any more trouble for anyone, but I’m a bother either way. Can it really be such a sin to run instead of fight? ... It may be selfish, but it’s what I want.
- I’m no use to anyone.
- I’ll be dead soon anyway.
- It’d be easier if they’d just kill me.


From the NMHA (the National Mental Health Association), characteristics & signs of a person contemplating suicide are as follows:

- Verbal suicide threats such as, “You’d be better off without me.” or “Maybe I won’t be around.”
- Expressions of hopelessness and helplessness.
- Previous suicide attempts.
- Daring or risk-taking behavior.
- Personality changes.
- Depression.
- Giving away prized possessions.
- Lack of interest in future plans.

In those five statements alone, she makes verbal threats, expresses hopelessness, an extreme change in personality, indicates depression, and has no interest in her future—or even the remote chance of recovering. And that’s even with Laura acting as a salubrious friend that has been suggested to have helped Mary with her illness.

[Augophthalmoses]

Dude, we both know you're playing games. Those sort of comments she says aren't uncommon for people on their death bed. It's especially more difficult since she was so young and cheerful all of a sudden being thrust into a serious situation like that. You're not so naive that you couldn't possibly realize it.

And lol at verbal threats. Telling James to leave and merely putting down his offer of flowers aren't exactly verbal threats. Those would be more along the lines of threatening to hurt and/or kill somebody which she obviously didn't do.

Come on. This stale routine of yours isn't quite as subtle as you'd like to think it is.

[what]

The commonality of these symptoms in her condition means that they aren't serious?

What you read as "verbal threats" is "verbal suicide threats.

If you really think I'm trolling, don't feed me. I would love nothing more than to see you vacate the thread, because you're contributing a great deal of nothing to it and you never responded to my challenge involving you offering some kind of definitive proof that Mary definitely did not stay at Brookhaven.

If you can't handle an actual debate, take your abrasive, dismissive, jerkass attitude, go someplace else with it, and let the adults converse.