Establishment of the Sword of Obedience and Saint Medallions

[Lobsel Vith]

I was NOT criticizing your grammar. You said that they use the swords to pin down the victims, before sacrificing them. I just pointed out that this act is redundant.

Yes, that's the only apparent use for the swords in game.

And the game is all we have to go by. Anything else we speculate, without in game proof is 'fan-fiction'.


Okay, here's another question.

Remember the book scrap that we find in the beginning of the game (when we control Henry.)? Anyone want to guess when that book scrap got there?

[ERROR]

When Joseph stole it from Wish House, along w/ the Crimson Tome and the children's book.

[Lobsel Vith]

Ahh, that makes since.

Okay, next question. Remember the note in the Prison world 2nd time? It's obvious this was written by one of the prisoner's (probably Walter). It talks about sticking 'The triangle handled sword' into Andrew.

[PyramidHead316]

Remember that the HW sect may have revived at any (unknown) time between 1987-1991. You wrote that the HW sect had created the items as a safeguard. By saying that the items were created as a safeguard, you are implying that the HW sect was revived before Walter performed the 21 Sacraments ritual, or the items were created before the HW sect went into dormancy...

I'm saying they might have been created a safeguard for his power, once they became aware of it. Isn't it a little too coincidental that the artifacts carrying the symbol of the Holy Woman sect affect the creatures resulting from Walter's power directly? I'm saying that once they realized Walter might have succeeded, they created these artifacts in order to counter his power, in case someone needed to defend themselves from him. He killed two priests of the Valtiel sect. How did they know he wasn't going to kill them as well?

The timeline might have gone like this:

Late 80s to early 90s - Walter Sullivan kills 10 victims, then kills himself.

Sometime after Walter's spree - The Holy Woman sect is revived.

Several years later - Some of the cult members connect the new rash of killings to a man who has performed the Holy Assumption, and create several methods to counter the mythical figure's power. They realize there's a chance Walter might be out there.

It seems to me a case of one sect struggling against another. The Holy Woman sect wasn't originally aware of Walter, but once they became aware he might have ascended to another state, they realized they needed to have a way to counter him, possibly in case he went after them.

It could be entirely possible for the items to have been made after Walter had started killing people again, but what do you think the logic is behind creating these two items? An amulet to ward off evil spirits and blade with a spell scrided on it. The HW sect knew how to stop the 21 Sacraments, and you should know this. It says how in the "Crimson Tome", which you keep bringing up.

But no one can enter Walter's realm unless he allows it. How are they going to pull that off if they can't even reach his realm? On the other hand, being pulled into that place is a different scenario. If someone finds themselves in that realm, they're going to be dealing with the 'ghosts' and the power Walter has endowed them with unwittingly. It's possible that the artifacts can be transferred between the two realms, thereby assuring the bearer some measure of security.

The only question is why Walter would allow them to cross over into his realm, unless he's aware of them and wants to make things more challenging.

It almost seems like there's some third party here monitoring Walter's actions all throughout the years, but we don't have any clues on one, we have to assume it was the Holy Woman sect that had some insight into his current state.

I don't really understand how any of this is relevent. If you are trying to summarize the ideas in the thread [url=http://www.shf.silenthillfever.com/viewtopic.php?t=2926][b][u]

I've never read that thread. I have no interest in reading it frankly, since Dahlia's visit with Walter is a simple subject that doesn't need much discussion.

Dahlia didn't teach Walter the ritual, but she guided him into associating his mother with the Holy Mother, knowing the effect it would have on him. She intentionally did that to sabotage their intentions. I'm trying to show how someone from the Holy Woman sect can have knowledge of Walter's activities. Although Dahlia's involvement ended there, later on they could have remembered bits and pieces of the circumstances around Walter, and pieced together that he was still carrying out the 21 Sacraments. If one woman can figure out the Valtiel sect and the Holy Mother sect's intentions and sabotage them, later on another group of people could figure out the 21 Sacraments ritual really was valid, and now they had a potentially dangerous enemy on their hands. It's not directly relevant to the topic, I'm just showing how the sects can be aware of the other's intentions, beyond just sharing common scriptures.

That's precisely why the SMs work. They are amulets, and they were designed to work just like their Christian counterparts.

Except the Christian amulets work on faith. These ones don't. No offense to the Christian community, but there's a difference between an object reputed to have mystical properties and one that really *does* have mystical properties in a story. It seems to me they were created to counter a very real threat, rather than just being all-around good luck charms. These people are working with real magical talents, not blind faith that they will work.

Unless Walter created them because he wants to be stopped? Maybe there's a part of Walter that still feels remorse for what he did, and wants someone to stop him before it's too late. Maybe Walter wants to stop himself, and recognizing Saint Alessa as a symbol of purity, creates these artifacts so that his victims will have a chance at stopping him. I'm willing to believe that, if only because I think Walter would see a kindred spirit in Alessa. But that's different from 21121's theory about them being reflections of Walter's world.

[Lobsel Vith]

To correct something.

Walter performed the "Ten Hearts Killing Spree" in ten days.

[PyramidHead316]

I know. I mentioned that earlier.

Or were you saying that to someone else?

[Lobsel Vith]

In your post you said this,

The timeline might have gone like this:

Late 80s to early 90s - Walter Sullivan kills 10 victims, then kills himself.

[Angel]

Isn't it a little too coincidental that the artifacts carrying the symbol of the Holy Woman sect affect the creatures resulting from Walter's power directly?

The Swords don't bear any symbols that connect them to the HW sect at all. There are, however, some things that can connect them to the HM sect:

1. The Swords have triangle handles. I read somewhere about a triangle/pyramid motif that connects the Swords to Xuchilbara and the HM sect, but I can't find it so I'm not entirely sure about this.

2. Joseph finds one of the Swords stuck in the Mother Stone, which is worshipped by the HM sect. He states that he knows of only 5 others. How did he learn this? It doesn't seem as though he found all of them, so he must have read about them in a book or the Holy Scriptures at the Wish House. (Joseph prolly stuck his Sword into poor Eric Walsh.)

3. Walter (I'm positive it's lil' Wally) writes the note on Desalvo's shirt stating that he is going to stab him with a 'triangle sword'. Similar notes are scattered troughout the Water Prison, written on the walls. They bear strong resemblance to the diary entries in the Forest, which is why I believe were written by Wally. (Note that this is further evidence that the Swords of Obedience were created before the HW sect's resurgence.)

But no one can enter Walter's realm unless he allows it. How are they going to pull that off if they can't even reach his realm? On the other hand, being pulled into that place is a different scenario. If someone finds themselves in that realm, they're going to be dealing with the 'ghosts' and the power Walter has endowed them with unwittingly. It's possible that the artifacts can be transferred between the two realms, thereby assuring the bearer some measure of security.

Yeah, you are completely right about this, except that the inhabitant of rm. 302 can come and go as he pleases (sort of). And the item transference is possible, too. Case in point, Braintree's revolver.


Does anyone have an idea as to how the Saints Medallions got into Walter's world? Perhaps if we can figure out how the SMs got there, we can determine why they were created. I think Joseph introduced them. He may have found the SMs while researching the Order during his investigation of the Walter Sullivan case, and being the good journalist that he is, stole them.

I'm sooooo sleepy.

[Purramid_Head]

And the game is all we have to go by. Anything else we speculate, without in game proof is 'fan-fiction'.

More like fan theories. Fan fiction implies other things..

1. The Swords have triangle handles. I read somewhere about a triangle/pyramid motif that connects the Swords to Xuchilbara and the HM sect, but I can't find it so I'm not entirely sure about this.

This doesn't have anything to do w/ Xuchilbara = PH theory does it?

[PyramidHead316]

In your post you said this,

The timeline might have gone like this:

Late 80s to early 90s - Walter Sullivan kills 10 victims, then kills himself.

But I mentioned that part about the 10 days in the first post, which you seem to have missed. o_0

[Angel]

This doesn't have anything to do w/ Xuchilbara = PH theory does it?

It could. Like I said, I can't find the essay so I'm not sure.

[Lobsel Vith]

Pyramid Head isn't Xuchilbara.

[Angel]

We know.

[PyramidHead316]

Yeah, the mist is Xuchilbara! It makes perfect sense!

XD

What about my theory that Walter created the swords and medallions?

[Angel]

lol. Maybe I shouldn't have even brought it up without having proof...

Yeah, maybe Walter created them to protect HIMSELF from the Ghost-Victims.

[MrLight]

it's not a bad idea though

[The_Sinful]

Just like how we have holy water, we believe it to be holy right. So in this case walter as a child was taught about the medallions and the swords of obedience. What i can't wrap my mind around though is how did the swords come to ashfield instead of silent hill??!! I and if walter manifested them there does that contradict his evil intentions due to putting something of purity in a world of hell. Gosh this what I've been asking my self for the longest time of this game. I think though little walter put them there

[NarooN]

Lil' Walter most likely had something to do with those items coming there (Wally World). Walter wouldn't be making anything easier on himself if he brought them in.