Giromancy

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by Giromancy on Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:32 am

Image

I was thinking on something when i saw this tweet of M.Ito on Twitter yesterday:

Image

Apparently, TeamSilent used Softimage 3D to make all the 3D assest for SH1 including SH2 & SH3.
So I asked myself, it may be possible that the .ILM files (3d models) can be opened using Softimage?
This is the original software that these files were made after all right?

So I started searching on internet more info about these .ILM files, and i found this website: http://www.digipres.org
I went to: Formats & All known extensions tab, there i looked for .ILM files and found this:

Image
http://www.digipres.org/formats/extensions/

There are a lot of other programs that support these files and not all are for 3d models but Softimage 3D is there and it says XSI 3D Model, so Softimage 3D is compatible with this file... i guess.

So i started to search more info about wich version of Softimage could have been used around 1997 & 1998 (date on which silent hill began to develop).

And i found this on Wikipedia:
Image
So, if i am correct, the version of SI that TeamSilent could have used to developed the game it was: 3.7 & 3.8

Having these two versions in mind, i started to find a place to download these versions (they are abandonware) so i do not think it's hard to find (wrong).

Anyway, i find a place where i download the 3.7 version knowing that i have Windows 7-64b and surely it won't work, but Nothing ventured nothing gained. :D

And.... i was right, the software wont work on Win7 64b, but at least, i was able to install it.
In the middle of the installation, there are a few options:

Image

¨SONY PSX Converter¨ that option it called my attention, it might be possible that with that option we have access to .ILM files? or could be that that option convert .ILM files to PSX readable files? idk..
So, as I can not run the software, i am unable to open these .ILM files and see for myself sadly.
Maybe we can try using a Virtual Machine, idk.

If theres someone with more knowledge on this field, please let us know if we can open this files with older Softimage versions.

Im going to try with modern versions of SI compatible with Win7 and see what can i do.
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Image Image Image
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Sparagas

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by Sparagas on Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:51 am

HOLY MOLY!
We are moving in leaps!
I was always suspecting, that SH1 and SH2 are made in the same engine, because they're both are made from 1x1 meter squares and maps are made from 40x40 squares (outside town at least)
Let's make SILENT HILL just PLAIN SCREAM
 
 
 
 
 

roocker666

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by roocker666 on Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:19 am

I remember doing that search a couple of years ago, I downloaded the software and installed it but unfortunately it does not open .ILM files, the psx plugin only imports and exports to .TMD and other format that I do not remember. :evil:
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sparagas

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by Sparagas on Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:26 am

Guys, don't be confused, but there are 2 versions of SOFTIMAGE:
the old SOFTIMAGE 3D
and new Autodesk SOFTIMAGE XSI (when Autodesk bought it)

But I assume, that a lot of people still called it SOFTIMAGE 3D
So maybe it isn't working because you are using old not compatible version.
The latest version is 2015 edition, so it should be compatible with modern OS, and, luckily, because this software is discontinued, it is available for free from official Autodesk webpage:

https://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/softimage
Let's make SILENT HILL just PLAIN SCREAM
 
 
 
 
 

PaulSilentin

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by PaulSilentin on Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:20 pm

SOFTIMAGE|3D Extreme 3.7 works with glitches on win xp sp3 PC (1024x768 16 bit color, press Win button or Win + D several times to cure glitches ) from this source:
http://vetusware.com/download/SOFTIMAGE ... eme%203.7/
mirror: http://rgho.st/6TXt6K5MJ

not sure is it useable somehow, but interesting... playstation export and import functions:
REVEAL SPOILER
Image
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Sparagas

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by Sparagas on Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:16 pm

I tried to see what version was used in Making Of videos, but it's too blurry. But in all versions you can see it's SOFTIMAGE 3D (clearly written at the top). How we missed that?

Silent Hill
Silent Hill 2
Silent Hill 3
Let's make SILENT HILL just PLAIN SCREAM
 
 
 
 
 

roocker666

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by roocker666 on Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:10 pm

Sparagas wrote:I tried to see what version was used in Making Of videos, but it's too blurry. But in all versions you can see it's SOFTIMAGE 3D (clearly written at the top). How we missed that?

Silent Hill
Silent Hill 2
Silent Hill 3


You are right, it is SOFTIMAGE, maybe They only used that for 3D animations and not for the ILM models. I don't know...
 
 
 
 
 
 

TheQuietOne

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by TheQuietOne on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:50 am

I had originally started a thread, but decided to delete it, because it was quite frankly stupid. I'll post what I had originally here though.

REVEAL SPOILER
Ok, I'm kind of new here, so I've been mainly reading around trying to get up to speed. I was reading Giromancy's post(http://silenthillcommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=3335&t=438099&p=7683810#p7683810) and where it talked about Softimage 3D(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softimage_3D) was used for Silent Hill 1, 2, 3.

Kept searching for .ilm file formats, found what I'm pretty sure are dead ends/unrelated.
An old forum discussing 3DS MAX objects, where it listed it as a Amiga Interchange File Format.IFF, .ILBM, .ILM, .LBM http://www.jahshaka.com/forums/archive/ ... -6101.html
Two sites said that that file type is an Opus Creator multimedia file.
https://www.file-extensions.org/ilm-file-extension
And the Second
http://www.digipres.org/formats/sources ... rmats/#ilm
The second on has a link that says "Registry Source ilm.trid.xml" that when you click it takes you to a github page.
https://github.com/digipres/digipres.gi ... m.trid.xml
An old product review discussing Opus Creator.
http://designertoday.com/Reviews/2002.R ... s.Pro.aspx

I kept searching, looking around for softimage3d, and then I found this.
Softimage 3D with ILM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiGsOLBUyDs
And then this, Bill George of Industrial Light & Magic discussing the software at the 0:43 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrNQQvAKO2o
Discussion of "Wipeout" on the PlayStation at 8:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHeKXv4BY0M
An article from Aug 5, 1997 - "ILM continues to strengthen its relationship with Softimage and recently purchased a significant number of new Softimage 3D licenses."
https://www.google.com/search?q=ILM+con ... e&ie=UTF-8
Unfortunately when you click on the link it says it cant be found, but Aug 5,1997 is AFTER Microsoft purchased Softimage, Co. in 1994
https://news.microsoft.com/ilm/
Which lead me to this conclusion...
A big customer like Industrial Light and Magic? I wouldn't be surprised if Micro$oft spent money on a new file format.
So, if its true .ilm file type is Industrial Light and Magic, maybe ILM is where I should be looking.
So that's where I started looking next.
Started here.
https://www.google.com/search?q=industr ... e&ie=UTF-8
Which lead me to this quote/link, that I found very interesting...
"Historically, the visual effects community and the motion picture industry have benefited from the
creation of standards," said Jim Morris, President of Lucas Digital.
http://www.openexr.com/OpenEXR_Press_Re ... _22_03.pdf
Going off of the press release, I decided to check it out.
"OpenEXR is a high dynamic-range (HDR) image file format developed by Industrial Light & Magic for use in computer imaging applications.OpenEXR is used by ILM on all motion pictures currently in production. The first movies to employ OpenEXR were Harry Potter and the Sorcerers Stone, Men in Black II, Gangs of New York, and Signs. Since then, OpenEXR has become ILM's main image file format."

So if its been their current main image file format since 2001/2002, what did it replace?

OpenEXR
http://openexr.com/index.html
Documentation on the ilmimf library
"In an OpenEXR file, pixel data can be stored either as scan lines or as tiles. Files that store pixels as tiles can
also store multi-resolution images. For each of the two storage formats (scan line or tile-based), the ilmImf
library supports two reading and writing interfaces:" Two formats, ScanLine vs Tile, ilm vs lmf.
http://openexr.com/ReadingAndWritingImageFiles.pdf
The GitHub page
https://github.com/openexr/openexr


Now back on the topic of old software Team Silent MIGHT have used during the time, compatible with .ilm files, I went back and took another look at Opus Creator pro. Apparently it underwent a name change. It used to be known as Illuminatus.
Illuminatus --> .ilm
http://www.digitalworkshop.com/corporat ... tory.shtml
It discusses Illuminatus v4.5 in 1996 in the link, says it changed names at "turn of the millenium."

Guy was able to get Illuminatus 3 running on XP
http://www.digitalgrapevine.info/viewto ... f=6&t=4008

Silent Hill of course isn't the only game with .ILM files being investigated...
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnknownDevelop ... developer/
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sparagas

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by Sparagas on Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:08 am

Great digging! And nice theory, but what about other formats? .ILM are just for characters and enemies. There are also .PLM and .IPD files. They are very similar, and quite well documented at this time. See other threats in this forum for more info
Let's make SILENT HILL just PLAIN SCREAM
 
 
 
 
 

TheQuietOne

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by TheQuietOne on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:58 pm

I had spent the better part of the day typing stuff up, but when I went to post it said I was no longer signed in. Clicked back and all my stuff was gone. Oh well. :cut: I'm retracing my steps.
Great digging! And nice theory, but what about other formats? .ILM are just for characters and enemies. There are also .PLM and .IPD files. They are very similar, and quite well documented at this time. See other threats in this forum for more info

The documentation you posted is good, viewtopic.php?f=3335&t=438104
but its not as well documented as say .TIM
http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki ... n_graphics)
http://wiki.qhimm.com/view/PSX/TIM_format
https://mrclick.zophar.net/TilEd/download/timgfx.txt
Still, keep up the good work!

Is there a place where ALL of the file types used in Silent Hill are posted?

I still have most of my tabs for .PLM open.
REVEAL SPOILER
Just like with .ilm I keep finding Amiga stuff. Found 1 source saying its an Atari picture format.
Software named recoil supports that file format.
https://www.file-extensions.org/recoil-file-extensions

Then I found something I thought was interesting. It's also an audio format.
Native Panasonic sound format for flash memory voice recorders.
https://www.file-extensions.org/plm-fil ... ditor-file

And then DisorderTracker2 module. Description says:
"8 or 16-bits mono sound format. Contains loops, names, collections."
https://www.file-extensions.org/plm-file-extension
Some sort of audio plugin. Didn't think too much of it until I found this,
the documentation for DisorderTracker2.
ftp://ftp.modland.com/pub/documents/for ... (.plm).txt
Why does an audio plugin need an X, Y, and Z(pattern)?
Incase the previous linke doesnt work ftp://ftp.modland.com/pub/documents/for ... mentation/

Found OpenMPT(Open ModPlug Tracker.)
https://openmpt.org/
And in their manual section for module formats, there's a list titled:
"File formats that can only be read by OpenMPT."
And under that list is
"Disorder Tracker 2 (.plm)"


Again, is there a documentation somewhere listing all the file types were aware of used in the game and
what they do? Everything I'm finding suggests audio format, but I doubt these are the audio sounds. Unless....
.PLM - 3D objects that attaches to .IPD and HERO.ILM

Possibly audio for the different locations? Such as the sound of Harry's footsteps?
If the files containing sound bytes like that have already been found, again I ask, can you point me to a list
of all the known file types used in Silent Hill?

Unfortunately this was all I could pull up on .ILM
Still trying to gather up all the stuff I had on the other file types
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sparagas

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by Sparagas on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:10 am

TY for .TIM documentation, that will really help! I'm new to all this stuff including documentation, so I'm learning on the go.
I liked the visualization, so I will do it also, but definitely not now - we need to learn more about files and formats.

If you loose your post often, when I sugest to open .txt file, and copy paste all your writings in there every 5 min or so. So if loose your stuff in web browser, you will have it in saved .txt file.

About .PLM files.... No No No, they are not audio files! They are 3D models. We already have extracted them:

Image

Image

I'm almost sure what line names are just coincident with other popular file formats, and all 3 files are proprietary formats.
Because .ILM and .PLM are 99% identical formats. They even have the same ID number. And .IPD files are just (undocumented data) + .ILM/.PLM file. That's it.

About all existing file format list. I understand the confusion, and maybe do the complete list of it in my documentation post later on.

EDIT:
these are all folders and files used in SILENT archive (extracted from SLUS_007.07 (also known as PSX.EXE)

Code: Select all
\XA\....\VIN\...\TIM\...\TEST\..\SND\...\MISC\..\ITEM\..\CHARA\.\BG\....\ANIM\..\1ST\....CMP.....KDT.....DAT.....TMD.....ILM.....IPD.....PLM.....ANM.....DMS.....BIN.....VAB.....TIM

Image

name with "\" are folders, and without it are file formats
Let's make SILENT HILL just PLAIN SCREAM
 
 
 
 
 

TheQuietOne

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SOFTIMAGE 3D compatible with .ILM files?

Post by TheQuietOne on Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:10 pm

TY for .TIM documentation, that will really help! I'm new to all this stuff including documentation, so I'm learning on the go.
I liked the visualization, so I will do it also, but definitely not now - we need to learn more about files and formats.

I was just using .TIM as an example, but if documentation is what ya want, I found a few things.

.TMD
http://wiki.xentax.com/index.php/Playstation_TMD

"Sony PlayStation 1 videos, usually with the extension STR, MOV, or BIN,
contain compressed video data similar to an MPEG1 movie."
https://github.com/m35/jpsxdec/blob/rea ... format.txt

And finally,
though its a bit late now,
getting back on track with this thread about Softimage 3D....
The Documentation on the file format.
http://www.bz2md.com/fishdotxsi/xsi.htm#494008
They are 3D models.

Sorry, OOP(object oriented programming) background, so any time I hear object i snap back
into test mode, "An object is an instance of a class." lol
Speaking of OOP...
Because .ILM and .PLM are 99% identical formats. They even have the same ID number. And .IPD files are just (undocumented data) + .ILM/.PLM file. That's it.

Any idea what language was used for Silent Hill? I know a majority of PSX games were programmed with C or C++, with a few oddballs like Crash Bandicoot using Pascal. Just curious, because it almost sounds like a class structure. C++ supports object oriented programming, C does not.
I'm almost sure what line names are just coincident with other popular file formats, and all 3 files are proprietary formats.

I think you're right about .ILM , .PLM , and .IPD
.DMS for cut-scenes animation

.DMS I'm curious about.
"Dictionary of Multimedia 1999" has .DMS as "Compressed."
https://books.google.com/books?id=lcO2A ... 99&f=false
Probably nothing though. I'll see if I can dig up any documentation on the other file types.
 
 
 
 


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