Naroon

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Naroon on Wed May 16, 2012 3:53 am

http://www.1up.com/features/the-problem ... eservation

Tomm talks about how the source code they received for the games weren't even the final versions of said code.

"We got all the source code that Konami had on file -- which it turns out wasn't the final release version of the games! D'oh!"

. . .

"So during debug we didn't just have to deal with the expected 'porting' bugs, but also had to squash some bugs that the original team obviously removed prior to release, but we'd never seen before. A lot of assets such as textures and sound had to be taken out of the compiled game, and that brings with it a host of unique issues, especially taken on top of the tricky coding workarounds at play in the original games. We certainly had our hands full. I think at one point Heather was blue."


That explains a lot. This is more of Konami's fault than it really is Hijinx's. Even though Hijinx never really made world-renowned games before, I still think it blows that they got their names slandered so hard due to this HDC. I knew something was up with this, but this is finally a confirmation as to exactly why it was such a botched release. Q. Valintyne and I also confirmed our theory that production on the game was probably done well before the game actually released, since the game has a "2011" copyright notice on it.

The delays of the game were pretty much just terrible Konami marketing, them attempting to release all three around the same time as each other. Thankfully Downpour wasn't bug-riddled but still had the autosave issue which caused stutter, and BoM ended up getting delayed until Fall 2012. Seems Konami has learned their lesson in this case.

The article itself is a great read though. It busts the misconception that HD remasters are "easy to do" and don't take much work besides just "simply upscaling the game to x resolution and adding trophies."

Also noted at the end is that Hijinx is apparently trying to fix "all" of the issues, not just a few of them. Still no release window for the patch given.

Also just a quick notice: I don't expect this thread to blow up too much, but don't let it become a flamefest like the last one did. There's no need for baseless name-calling and accusations. The only people we can truly blame in this are the marketing bigwigs at Konami, not Tomm and not even Hijinx.
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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Floodclaw on Wed May 16, 2012 8:04 am

Interesting. Nice to hear that it wasn't just Hijinx being lazy even with delays, and that they're hard at work to fix ALL the issues.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Yuki on Wed May 16, 2012 3:20 pm

Huh. Interesting article, and yet again Konami makes a huge blunder. Thanks for this!
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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Q. Valintyne on Wed May 16, 2012 3:25 pm

Holy shit, NarooN. :lol:

This was a great find and an interesting read, my friend.

EDIT: I have no idea why Tomm didn't make this fact public before now because it would've ceased a lot of unnecessary bitching we did towards Hijinx. That honestly explains a lot of the missing content and texture issues. I'm pretty sure not even Ito was aware that the code on file was from an older build. I wonder what his reaction would be to this...?

I love the fact that Hulett is spelled in a variety of ways in the article. :lol:
 
 
 
 
 
 

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Naroon on Wed May 16, 2012 5:46 pm

Yeah, it's odd that no one told us about this earlier. They always remained quiet when asked what was so difficult, like when they mentioned the "technical issues with the code of SH3" but never elaborated on it. Now we know lol.

I'd like to see Ito's word on this. Maybe he'll be less pissed about the clean streets of SH2, :lol:.
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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Mothersdecent on Wed May 16, 2012 5:47 pm

It doesn't explain anything.
The games were still released to the public broken and incredibly glitchy.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by murphdaycake on Wed May 16, 2012 9:08 pm

Mothersdecent wrote:It doesn't explain anything.
The games were still released to the public broken and incredibly glitchy.


The point Tomm was trying to make is that it was very difficult to do bug testing and removal on the game. The source code on file wasn't complete, meaning there were a host of new issues to deal with, like re-inserting textures, audio, etc., which probably has something to do with the voice acting issues. They had to work around the unfinished coding, which proved to be an enormous undertaking. Honestly, I think Konami should have just cancelled the project if there were this many issues, but I guess they just wanted their money and that was that. I'm glad that Hijinx is taking the initiative to fix the issues though, this shows that they are/were aware of the problems and are passionate about correcting them.
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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Mothersdecent on Wed May 16, 2012 9:36 pm

murphdaycake wrote:
Mothersdecent wrote:It doesn't explain anything.
The games were still released to the public broken and incredibly glitchy.


The point Tomm was trying to make is that it was very difficult to do bug testing and removal on the game. The source code on file wasn't complete, meaning there were a host of new issues to deal with, like re-inserting textures, audio, etc., which probably has something to do with the voice acting issues. They had to work around the unfinished coding, which proved to be an enormous undertaking. Honestly, I think Konami should have just cancelled the project if there were this many issues, but I guess they just wanted their money and that was that. I'm glad that Hijinx is taking the initiative to fix the issues though, this shows that they are/were aware of the problems and are passionate about correcting them.


I understand but my point is the games were still released despite having numerous problems and the developers knowing about them.
The release of this statement seems more like an excuse than anything else.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Meltdown on Wed May 16, 2012 9:52 pm

Mothersdecent wrote:
murphdaycake wrote:
Mothersdecent wrote:It doesn't explain anything.
The games were still released to the public broken and incredibly glitchy.


The point Tomm was trying to make is that it was very difficult to do bug testing and removal on the game. The source code on file wasn't complete, meaning there were a host of new issues to deal with, like re-inserting textures, audio, etc., which probably has something to do with the voice acting issues. They had to work around the unfinished coding, which proved to be an enormous undertaking. Honestly, I think Konami should have just cancelled the project if there were this many issues, but I guess they just wanted their money and that was that. I'm glad that Hijinx is taking the initiative to fix the issues though, this shows that they are/were aware of the problems and are passionate about correcting them.


I understand but my point is the games were still released despite having numerous problems and the developers knowing about them.
The release of this statement seems more like an excuse than anything else.
Yeah but its not like they had unlimited money, time, and resources to deal with the shitpile Konami left them.
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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Naroon on Wed May 16, 2012 10:13 pm

Mothersdecent wrote:
murphdaycake wrote:
Mothersdecent wrote:It doesn't explain anything.
The games were still released to the public broken and incredibly glitchy.


The point Tomm was trying to make is that it was very difficult to do bug testing and removal on the game. The source code on file wasn't complete, meaning there were a host of new issues to deal with, like re-inserting textures, audio, etc., which probably has something to do with the voice acting issues. They had to work around the unfinished coding, which proved to be an enormous undertaking. Honestly, I think Konami should have just cancelled the project if there were this many issues, but I guess they just wanted their money and that was that. I'm glad that Hijinx is taking the initiative to fix the issues though, this shows that they are/were aware of the problems and are passionate about correcting them.


I understand but my point is the games were still released despite having numerous problems and the developers knowing about them.
The release of this statement seems more like an excuse than anything else.


It's not Hijinx's fault, it's Konami's for not only giving them shitty unfinished source code, but for forcing them to "finish up" on it and then release it as it was.
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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Mothersdecent on Wed May 16, 2012 11:40 pm

Meltdown wrote:
Mothersdecent wrote:
murphdaycake wrote:
The point Tomm was trying to make is that it was very difficult to do bug testing and removal on the game. The source code on file wasn't complete, meaning there were a host of new issues to deal with, like re-inserting textures, audio, etc., which probably has something to do with the voice acting issues. They had to work around the unfinished coding, which proved to be an enormous undertaking. Honestly, I think Konami should have just cancelled the project if there were this many issues, but I guess they just wanted their money and that was that. I'm glad that Hijinx is taking the initiative to fix the issues though, this shows that they are/were aware of the problems and are passionate about correcting them.


I understand but my point is the games were still released despite having numerous problems and the developers knowing about them.
The release of this statement seems more like an excuse than anything else.
Yeah but its not like they had unlimited money, time, and resources to deal with the shitpile Konami left them.


More excuses.
No developer has any of that in the first place and yet the good ones manage to create decent games nonetheless, so you'd think that porting last gen games would not be a problem whatsoever.
Contracting a studio that only worked with one dollar Mobile games IS Konami's fault however.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by devil hunter on Thu May 17, 2012 12:31 am

It doesn't matter whose fault it is, what matters is that the collection doesn't have anymore problems when its patched.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Naroon on Thu May 17, 2012 1:01 am

Mothersdecent wrote:More excuses.
No developer has any of that in the first place and yet the good ones manage to create decent games nonetheless, so you'd think that porting last gen games would not be a problem whatsoever.
Contracting a studio that only worked with one dollar Mobile games IS Konami's fault however.


It's a problem when you're trying to port a game from scratch using incomplete source code.
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Post by Mothersdecent on Thu May 17, 2012 1:36 am

devil hunter wrote:It doesn't matter whose fault it is, what matters is that the collection doesn't have anymore problems when its patched.


I'm hoping it won't. I'm also hoping i'll get to hear Heather's original voice again.. I miss her :cry:
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Q. Valintyne on Thu May 17, 2012 4:54 pm

I don't know if this article has been posted here in any shape or form, but back in January, Heather had no idea they were making an HD Collection.

I only now became aware that they were re-releasing Silent Hill 3 and I had not been contacted by anyone from Konami about the possibility of re-recording. It is unfortunate, as I would have loved to be involved in the project. I hope that all the fans out there enjoy the new actress’s portrayal of Heather as much as they did mine and enjoy playing the game....
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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Bulbatron on Thu May 17, 2012 5:23 pm

Silent Hill 3 appears to have a slight problem with crashing. Most of the time, it won't be a big deal, but I just had it crash on me as I left the motel to head for Lakeside Amusement Park. I hadn't saved the game yet as I was going for the Achievement for going through it in 2 saves of fewer.

Whole evening's play wasted. So as you can imagine, I'm not feeling too happy with the Silent Hill HD Collection at the moment.

However, once I've got it, it won't matter. At least it seems as though they're willing to patch the other issues and make it right for the players. Bit of a bugger if you're not online though.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by nur_ein_tier on Thu May 17, 2012 5:32 pm

Mothersdecent wrote:
devil hunter wrote:It doesn't matter whose fault it is, what matters is that the collection doesn't have anymore problems when its patched.


I'm hoping it won't. I'm also hoping i'll get to hear Heather's original voice again.. I miss her :cry:

I doubt anything will be done with voices, but I gotta say, new Heather is not among my favorites, =0\

It'd be good if sh3 was playable on ps3 though. When I tried to play it froze up nearly every time, or ran in slow motion. That makes it unplayable, yeah.

But as for the article, yeah it explains things, but as others have said, it still doesn't really excuse the problems. It would have been better if it was just delayed. Would've eliminated the whole shitstorm that resulted, etc.
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Post by Q. Valintyne on Thu May 17, 2012 8:24 pm

I haven't even tried SH3 with the HD Collection. I got so frustrated with the running animation having looping issues with SH2 and I just gave up. All I know is that the last patch didn't even fix that.

All we can do now is hope. :/

I agree that a delay may have helped, however they should have worked on the game during the previous other said delays instead of just... doing nothing at all. The game was printed and done in 2011. The delays from January to March, to even later March was strictly for marketing and not to "work out some bugs."

I'm just glad I do have high speed internet now. If it weren't for that, I'd be hella pissed regardless.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by PinentidHead on Thu May 17, 2012 10:39 pm

The product is made by a team, and the team is guilty. Which on is more guilty we'll probably never know. If they don't have the final source code, than they has done a bad evaluation of the situation (the efforts needed for rework) with leads to a bad plan, collisions with another priorities, etc.. But I kind understand, it's hard to say - it cannot be done! We don't like to refuse challenges, and sometime we lost. I don't mean the game is "a lost", but the effect of a brilliant HD Silent Hill wasn't reached.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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So this is why the HDC was so messed up. [link inside]

Post by Lilith on Fri May 18, 2012 12:16 am

There's still problems with HDC w/o the source code. And it is Konami's fault either way. One problem is that they said that 3 couldn't include old voices but I remember one person saying that Heather's old voice was still being used in the games, such as fighting the monsters.
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