The more I play Downpour...

[captain crowbar]

the more I realize that I was kind of caught up in the hype originally. I still find it a great game, and I still don't mind defending it's right to be considered a Silent Hill game (I'm looking at my friends in TP with a and a nod).

REVEAL SPOILER

But the monster design was worse than Homecoming...and that's saying a LOT. The Otherworld was so cool, but wtf was it so Wonderlandy for when Murphy was the most adjusted and normal character in the entire series? It was a fun concept, but it's so far into the series at this point that a zany otherworld like that is hard to relate to. And the sidequests are both an awesome idea and a weakness to the narrative if you ask me. I mean, the great thing about the past games is how literally everything is relevant to the protagonist in some way. But the sidequests are about other people and stuff that was kind of out of place. But maybe that's just them wanting to expand the narrative to other people in Silent Hill, which is cool I guess. But it always worked better in SH2 and 3 and the like when everything was relevant to the narrative itself.

Still love it. Still in my top 5. Any input is fine by me, guys.

[devil hunter]

You know, the stuff you listed I really don't mind and it doesn't change what I think about the game at all

I actually liked the Otherworld

REVEAL SPOILER

I can see why people would think that it was "Wonderlandy" but I really didn't mind it, also, remember that the Otherworld in Downpour is not just Murphy's.

[Yuki]

You know, the stuff you listed I really don't mind and it doesn't change what I think about the game at all

I actually liked the Otherworld

REVEAL SPOILER

I can see why people would think that it was "Wonderlandy" but I really didn't mind it, also, remember that the Otherworld in Downpour is not just Murphy's.

I'll definitely second this.

REVEAL SPOILER

I agree the monster design was lackluster, but it didn't detract from the game; it just didn't add to them. As for the Otherworld, I'd rather have something over-the-top even if they're (somewhat) well-adjusted. Considering Murphy got into prison specifically to kill someone, and the Otherworld was also partially Anne's, I think it fit.

[OneFreeMan]

REVEAL SPOILER

The design of the monsters are by no means the best and would agree it probably worst than Homecoming. But for the sidequests are one of the best things about Downpour. If they did't have it, It wouldn't be as good as it is.

[astro]

I agree with you, I didn't have to play it more than once to come to the conclusion though, not that I'm saying I'm somehow better than you for being cynical about parts of the game sooner, but the side-quests and monster design were both an immediate and glaring problem for me.

REVEAL SPOILER

The monster design, for me, incited an atmosphere of blandness, un-inspiration and nonthreatening-ness, but the side-quests detracted from the experience of the game overall. I loved having an element of exploration in Downpour, but simultaneously it's a difficult thing to balance while still retaining the feeling of the town being a living and breathing entity, guiding you through your experiences in Silent Hill. The narrative itself just doesn't seem very 'into' Murphy's journey, and I sympathize, I wouldn't call him a bad character, but his place in the game was bizarre, even if you don't count the stupid decision-making moral choices. He arrived in Silent Hill through what was seemingly coincidence with a bunch of other unrelated people and his goal was only to leave until the end, he didn't have amnesia or a daughter who's birthing an evil god and in almost every ending he wasn't even a bad guy. It was a slightly weird experience learning meaningful things about Murphy that he apparently already knew, and it made me think "well, what was the point of the experience up until now then?" Come to think of it, pretty much the entire first half of the game is padding, almost nothing of consequence happens, you just meet a couple of almost completely irrelevant people and piddle around. Sure, there's some mystery to it, but who cares? It isn't central to the characters or story and I have no interest in thinking about it.

[captain crowbar]

Something that bothered me and my friends is the lack of threatening oppressive atmosphere the game produces. It's not like how in SH2 and 3, where monsters could be ANYWHERE and you were never really ready for them. The bad guys just kind of hung out in the street and you could easily run away. Even in the Dungeon-like levels, they were too few and far between. I need more Abstract Daddies and less Rawshocks.

[Yuki]

I agree with you, I didn't have to play it more than once to come to the conclusion though, not that I'm saying I'm somehow better than you for being cynical about parts of the game sooner, but the side-quests and monster design were both an immediate and glaring problem for me.

REVEAL SPOILER

The monster design, for me, incited an atmosphere of blandness, un-inspiration and nonthreatening-ness, but the side-quests detracted from the experience of the game overall. I loved having an element of exploration in Downpour, but simultaneously it's a difficult thing to balance while still retaining the feeling of the town being a living and breathing entity, guiding you through your experiences in Silent Hill. The narrative itself just doesn't seem very 'into' Murphy's journey, and I sympathize, I wouldn't call him a bad character, but his place in the game was bizarre, even if you don't count the stupid decision-making moral choices. He arrived in Silent Hill through what was seemingly coincidence with a bunch of other unrelated people and his goal was only to leave until the end, he didn't have amnesia or a daughter who's birthing an evil god and in almost every ending he wasn't even a bad guy. It was a slightly weird experience learning meaningful things about Murphy that he apparently already knew, and it made me think "well, what was the point of the experience up until now then?" Come to think of it, pretty much the entire first half of the game is padding, almost nothing of consequence happens, you just meet a couple of almost completely irrelevant people and piddle around. Sure, there's some mystery to it, but who cares? It isn't central to the characters or story and I have no interest in thinking about it.

REVEAL SPOILER

What do you mean it's not into him? It guides him through to get him through his guilt about Charlie's death, and to guide him to Anne so she can get closure.

The prisoners were related to him because they were in prison with him, and Anne was related because she believed Murphy killed Frank. Howard and Ricks were people trapped within the town itself.

It's not that Murphy was learning things; he was having to be faced with them again and process his guilt and anger.

[astro]

I agree with you, I didn't have to play it more than once to come to the conclusion though, not that I'm saying I'm somehow better than you for being cynical about parts of the game sooner, but the side-quests and monster design were both an immediate and glaring problem for me.

REVEAL SPOILER

The monster design, for me, incited an atmosphere of blandness, un-inspiration and nonthreatening-ness, but the side-quests detracted from the experience of the game overall. I loved having an element of exploration in Downpour, but simultaneously it's a difficult thing to balance while still retaining the feeling of the town being a living and breathing entity, guiding you through your experiences in Silent Hill. The narrative itself just doesn't seem very 'into' Murphy's journey, and I sympathize, I wouldn't call him a bad character, but his place in the game was bizarre, even if you don't count the stupid decision-making moral choices. He arrived in Silent Hill through what was seemingly coincidence with a bunch of other unrelated people and his goal was only to leave until the end, he didn't have amnesia or a daughter who's birthing an evil god and in almost every ending he wasn't even a bad guy. It was a slightly weird experience learning meaningful things about Murphy that he apparently already knew, and it made me think "well, what was the point of the experience up until now then?" Come to think of it, pretty much the entire first half of the game is padding, almost nothing of consequence happens, you just meet a couple of almost completely irrelevant people and piddle around. Sure, there's some mystery to it, but who cares? It isn't central to the characters or story and I have no interest in thinking about it.

REVEAL SPOILER

What do you mean it's not into him? It guides him through to get him through his guilt about Charlie's death, and to guide him to Anne so she can get closure.

The prisoners were related to him because they were in prison with him, and Anne was related because she believed Murphy killed Frank. Howard and Ricks were people trapped within the town itself.

It's not that Murphy was learning things; he was having to be faced with them again and process his guilt and anger.

REVEAL SPOILER

He just didn't really have a good reason to be there and go through the experience in the first place, there was barely any synergy between the characters and the prisoners walking around and stuff like that was only loosely relevant to Murphy's psyche in Silent Hill, surely everything should revolve around his guilt in some way otherwise it has no good reason to be there since it's calculated by the town? I don't really understand why Anne was there going nuts either, I don't remember her doing anything wrong but apparently the town was screwing her around too, and even killing other prisoners with Murphy's manifestations occasionally.

It's perfectly valid to go in a new direction with the town but it seems to contradict itself a little, the implication is that it's guiding your experience in Silent Hill, but the question is why, to show us a murder mystery? There doesn't seem to be any reason to it, and coincidence generally isn't a satisfying foundation for narrative. In Silent Hill 2, which I feel Downpour borrows most heavily from, the core of the story is about exploring the depths of the small group characters playing off each other with ridiculous amounts of synergy and something at the innermost of their being in common, in Downpour people are just kind of *there* and stuff is happening for some vague reason.

[devil hunter]

REVEAL SPOILER

The whole point of Murphy's journey was to show him how he was wrong about things he did. . I think he was slowly becoming the monsters he was killing because they deserved it. He admits everything and he's finally free, well not entirely, there's still stuff with Anne. He thought he was doing the right thing, well he still felt that what he did didn't solve anything. The journey helped him to admit that.

Stuff that happened in the game most certainly weren't "just there" or stuff happening for no reason. The whole game is about revenge, hatred, deciding your own fate and stuff like that.

[Purramid_Head]

I didn't like the monster designs or the fact that there was hardly a variation. Sometimes they seemed to be going into a good direction, at others it ended up lackluster. Homecoming had nice boss designs, Aphyxia ftw. I loved the symbolism.

I loved the otherworld in DP. All the time the characters felt crazy but the player did not. DP changed that. It made the player feel insane too.

[astro]

REVEAL SPOILER

The whole point of Murphy's journey was to show him how he was wrong about things he did. . I think he was slowly becoming the monsters he was killing because they deserved it. He admits everything and he's finally free, well not entirely, there's still stuff with Anne. He thought he was doing the right thing, well he still felt that what he did didn't solve anything. The journey helped him to admit that.

Stuff that happened in the game most certainly weren't "just there" or stuff happening for no reason. The whole game is about revenge, hatred, deciding your own fate and stuff like that.

REVEAL SPOILER

I disagree, the whole game isn't about that stuff, though they're elements of it which I didn't have too much of an issue with. The grievances I had were mostly the events revolving around Frank and Anne Coleridge, when the game really got going, Murphy's issues were pushed to the side and wrapped up rather quickly to make way for the murder mystery part of the story. Also, I'm not saying stuff happened for no reason at all, I'm saying it wasn't as tight and coherent as previous games and it suffered from it, similar to how the monsters are bland for a Silent Hill title, and it also suffered from that. Remember that originally my point was that I didn't like the side-quests because the focus wasn't as tight and it made the plot-mechanic of the town seem lackluster and lazy. Why is Silent Hill messing with Anne at all, why is Murphy going through the trials of Silent Hill for Anne if he didn't do anything wrong aside from killing Pat Napier, why does the town let you potter around in random houses messing with their irrelevant household stuff and why is the fact that Murphy is afraid of the prisoners relevant enough for them to manifest as a monsters? I can't be arsed to finish this post now, but you get the idea.

It just occurred to me that most of my points are pretty bollocks and I can't really be bothered to think about and dissect exactly what it is that I have a problem with. I might post about it later if I'm feeling up to it, but disregard this post because after thinking for a minute or two, most of the things I'm arguing against are pretty sensible and easily explained without much interpretation.

[Pyramid_Heart]

the more I realize that I was kind of caught up in the hype originally. I still find it a great game, and I still don't mind defending it's right to be considered a Silent Hill game (I'm looking at my friends in TP with a and a nod).

REVEAL SPOILER

But the monster design was worse than Homecoming...and that's saying a LOT. The Otherworld was so cool, but wtf was it so Wonderlandy for when Murphy was the most adjusted and normal character in the entire series? It was a fun concept, but it's so far into the series at this point that a zany otherworld like that is hard to relate to. And the sidequests are both an awesome idea and a weakness to the narrative if you ask me. I mean, the great thing about the past games is how literally everything is relevant to the protagonist in some way. But the sidequests are about other people and stuff that was kind of out of place. But maybe that's just them wanting to expand the narrative to other people in Silent Hill, which is cool I guess. But it always worked better in SH2 and 3 and the like when everything was relevant to the narrative itself.

Still love it. Still in my top 5. Any input is fine by me, guys.

Clarification on the Otherworld parts...

REVEAL SPOILER

Murphy's Otherworld is quite adjusted. It is St. Maria's. The rest of the otherworld parts you see belong to Anne, who has basically lost her mind over the last few years.

[devil hunter]

It just occurred to me that most of my points are pretty bollocks and I can't really be bothered to think about and dissect exactly what it is that I have a problem with. I might post about it later if I'm feeling up to it, but disregard this post because after thinking for a minute or two, most of the things I'm arguing against are pretty sensible and easily explained without much interpretation.

lol glad you realized that, I don't have to post a big reply XD. Yeah, all that is easily explained, the game explained it nicely.

[Yuki]

REVEAL SPOILER

He just didn't really have a good reason to be there and go through the experience in the first place, there was barely any synergy between the characters and the prisoners walking around and stuff like that was only loosely relevant to Murphy's psyche in Silent Hill, surely everything should revolve around his guilt in some way otherwise it has no good reason to be there since it's calculated by the town? I don't really understand why Anne was there going nuts either, I don't remember her doing anything wrong but apparently the town was screwing her around too, and even killing other prisoners with Murphy's manifestations occasionally.

It's perfectly valid to go in a new direction with the town but it seems to contradict itself a little, the implication is that it's guiding your experience in Silent Hill, but the question is why, to show us a murder mystery? There doesn't seem to be any reason to it, and coincidence generally isn't a satisfying foundation for narrative. In Silent Hill 2, which I feel Downpour borrows most heavily from, the core of the story is about exploring the depths of the small group characters playing off each other with ridiculous amounts of synergy and something at the innermost of their being in common, in Downpour people are just kind of *there* and stuff is happening for some vague reason.

REVEAL SPOILER

He did have good reason to be drawn into Silent Hill: he felt major guilt over Charlie's death, and major rage over it.

Also, the Otherworld is partially Anne's; it does not belong solely to Murphy in this game, mitigating how the monsters were only tangentially-related to him.

She didn't do anything wrong, but Silent Hill isn't solely about that. It brings in people with darkness in their hearts. Anne harbored strong, vengeful feelings, and was there at the same time as Murphy; of course it would draw her in.

What murder mystery are we even seeing? We're looking at Murphy's reasons for killing Napier in the game's beginning, not playing whodunit.

[Avianna]

Although I love stories about guilty people being drawn to the town of Silent Hill to pay penance, it would be boring if that's the reason for all the stories. Which is one reason why I like SH:DP. It came up with two really interesting reasons why people were there.

REVEAL SPOILER

And they didn't HAVE to be guilty of Murder.

[captain crowbar]

Clarification on the Otherworld parts...

REVEAL SPOILER

Murphy's Otherworld is quite adjusted. It is St. Maria's. The rest of the otherworld parts you see belong to Anne, who has basically lost her mind over the last few years.

Really? I never thought of it like that...but that's an interesting idea.

[MurphyPendleton]

I dont like the monster designs in Downpour but personally I like them in Homecoming... But thats my opinion xDD

[Augophthalmoses]

Aside from the derivative ones (PH, nurse, and ferals) Homecoming had the better monster designs. Scarlet in particular was excellent.

[nur_ein_tier]

I think nurses, PH, and the dogs could be forgiven to an extent because they were put in because they were iconic to the series. In particular, I didn't like that PH was there for no good reason, but I can see why they did it.

Otherwise,I think the monsters in SHH weren't half bad overall.

[astro]

REVEAL SPOILER

The whole point of Murphy's journey was to show him how he was wrong about things he did. . I think he was slowly becoming the monsters he was killing because they deserved it. He admits everything and he's finally free, well not entirely, there's still stuff with Anne. He thought he was doing the right thing, well he still felt that what he did didn't solve anything. The journey helped him to admit that.

Stuff that happened in the game most certainly weren't "just there" or stuff happening for no reason. The whole game is about revenge, hatred, deciding your own fate and stuff like that.

REVEAL SPOILER

I disagree, the whole game isn't about that stuff, though they're elements of it which I didn't have too much of an issue with. The grievances I had were mostly the events revolving around Frank and Anne Coleridge, when the game really got going, Murphy's issues were pushed to the side and wrapped up rather quickly to make way for the murder mystery part of the story. Also, I'm not saying stuff happened for no reason at all, I'm saying it wasn't as tight and coherent as previous games and it suffered from it, similar to how the monsters are bland for a Silent Hill title, and it also suffered from that. Remember that originally my point was that I didn't like the side-quests because the focus wasn't as tight and it made the plot-mechanic of the town seem lackluster and lazy. Why is Silent Hill messing with Anne at all, why is Murphy going through the trials of Silent Hill for Anne if he didn't do anything wrong aside from killing Pat Napier, why does the town let you potter around in random houses messing with their irrelevant household stuff and why is the fact that Murphy is afraid of the prisoners relevant enough for them to manifest as a monsters? I can't be arsed to finish this post now, but you get the idea.

It just occurred to me that most of my points are pretty bollocks and I can't really be bothered to think about and dissect exactly what it is that I have a problem with. I might post about it later if I'm feeling up to it, but disregard this post because after thinking for a minute or two, most of the things I'm arguing against are pretty sensible and easily explained without much interpretation.

I've been passively thinking about it, and I think part of what repels me about Downpour is mostly due to the characters and environments feeling ham-fisted and overdone, specifically characters like Anne and Patrick. It's hard to quantify, but nothing gets under my skin (in the good way) and I'm not sure how to put my finger on it. I liked some of the surrealism in the otherworld bits of Downpour, it was pretty visually impressive, but it was mostly just weird. Much less 'the familiar made strange' and more plain-old 'strange'.

I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm saying it's a bad game, I just think it's interesting and constructive to criticize the finer points of stuff like Silent Hill titles, but it's really unclear exactly why it doesn't incite certain feelings, so a lot of my complaints might seem nit-picky or just wrong because I haven't successfully nailed down the issue. I do admit though, I nit-pick an awful lot and I'm going to try to only nit-pick things that genuinely matter.