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Princess Kenny

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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Princess Kenny on Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:18 pm

Today while I was bumping thread like a madman something popped into my mind. Does fate have a role to play in Silent Hill.

Was James destined to go Silent Hill and go through the experience as he did. Was Walter destined to be abandoned in Ashfeild. Was his Victim's destined to be killed by his hands.

Maybe I'm looking way too much into thing but it is worth talking about.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Floodclaw on Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:38 pm

To an extent. The outcomes of each story are (mostly) uncertain, so fate may lead them to the beginning, but not to the end.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by ÆNEMA on Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:37 pm

Personally I just see it as circumstance in most cases. It's interesting to think about what might have happened if Travis hadn't been driving through Silent Hill or someone else had moved into room 302. If James & Mary hadn't vacationed in Silent Hill, I don't know that the town would have 'called' him, though maybe it could have.

Heather & Alex, though, I think were 'fated' to become involved with the town due to their histories.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Naroon on Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:37 pm

This was something interesting to think about in the SH4 thread, fatalism in SH. I think it exists to a certain extent, but I don't believe all the events we've seen/heard about were necessarily related to fate. The fact that in Joseph's dream/flashback sequence, there is a picture on the wall of Henry gives food for thought. Did Walter plan for Henry to appear somehow, or did Henry get wrapped up in this purely because he was the current tenant? Interesting questions.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Xuchilbara on Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:22 pm

It has to exist, even to an extent because things are dictated to James that he has to go through. Such as the game won't let you skip meeting Eddie even though you get nothing of value from it, or key items unlike with Angela. If you go straight to Angela a mysterious power blocks the door forcing you to comply.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Naroon on Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:33 pm

>>If you go straight to Angela a mysterious power blocks the door forcing you to comply.

Exactly. I remember touching upon things like this in a recent topic here where we were talking about the gameplay/boundaries of the game environments.

Regardless of what the player tries to do, the protagonists we control are very rarely able to dodge where they're supposed to go. The fact that various roads and pathways which weren't destroyed/there before suddenly get blocked or cease to exist altogether supports this.

I think there were several more instances of characters noticing that they are unable to go somewhere/pick something up/etc. because of a "force" not allowing them to do so, can't think of any off the top of my head right now.
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Post by Xuchilbara on Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:00 pm

Well, I think Ernest hinted at it in Maria's game. Maria and her game show there's some level of fate. Erneat told her the gods were there and she could feel it too, she was born there. Maria replied "I'm not sure gods are the right word for it." It could be a mix of fate and gods etc, it's hard to say.

Though one can make the argument that it technically is fate because the characters do what they were designed to do, lol.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by CrazyCatLady on Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:41 am

I guess it all comes down to whether you believe in fate or not. I, however, do not, so I don't believe fate plays a role in SH. I believe our decisions lead us down whatever path we end on, I don't believe we are already destined to go down that path no matter our decision.

If James hadn't have killed Mary, no, I don't believe he would have gone to Silent Hill (or had his "adventure" through it as he did in the game) because there would be no reason for him to. Unless, of course, something else happened in his life that would make him go. If Mary died of her illness, and not because he killed her, I don't think SH would have had a reason to "call" him.

If Harry hadn't have taken the baby Alessa gave to him at the end of SH1, the events of SH3 probably wouldn't have occurred. And if Harry had never adopted Cheryl, the events of SH1 would have never happened (or with someone completely different).

Those are just a couple of examples, but I do believe that they have that free-will to choose.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Xuchilbara on Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:56 am

It really doesn't matter if the individual believes in fate or not. It matters just the context of the game.
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Princess Kenny

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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Princess Kenny on Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:29 pm

I personally don't belive in fate but within the story of Silent Hill I feel there is certianly a part to play.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by ÆNEMA on Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:26 pm

NarooN wrote:>>If you go straight to Angela a mysterious power blocks the door forcing you to comply.

Exactly. I remember touching upon things like this in a recent topic here where we were talking about the gameplay/boundaries of the game environments.

Regardless of what the player tries to do, the protagonists we control are very rarely able to dodge where they're supposed to go. The fact that various roads and pathways which weren't destroyed/there before suddenly get blocked or cease to exist altogether supports this.

I think there were several more instances of characters noticing that they are unable to go somewhere/pick something up/etc. because of a "force" not allowing them to do so, can't think of any off the top of my head right now.
Does that necessarily have to be read into as fate, or can the player decide to just acknowledge that these are tools to keep the story unfolding in a certain order and manner? Like, if the story was being told in another format not controlled by a player, the characters probably wouldn't encounter these things, so I just see it as a matter of perspective.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Gauss on Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:36 pm

As a matter of game design, you get the closest you can get to something you can call "fate" in Silent Hill.

As a matter of the story, you have a universe where demons and "gods" exist, fate could exist within the context of Silent Hill. It doesn't seem like a huge leap.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by what on Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:05 pm

The fact that every game has multiple endings, combined with the fact that only one of them really has a 'canon' ending seems to strongly suggest that fate's role in any of the narratives is limited at best.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Xuchilbara on Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:07 pm

Fate still allows for decision making. But it limits what can and can't be done as I pointed out.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Gauss on Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:31 pm

I'm unclear what people mean by fate in this thread.

There are two popular kinds of fatalism (determinism) to be considered:
1) Metaphysical or logical fatalism: the laws of logic or metaphysical laws of nature are such that events/actions are strongly (or weakly) determined
2) Theological: God or some other entity makes the world such a way that actions/events are strongly (or weakly) determined

Then are two forms of determinism worth considering:
Strong: Our choices are not free and events are determined
Weak: Our choices are free but larger events are determined

There's room for some of these in SH.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Naroon on Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:37 pm

Does that necessarily have to be read into as fate, or can the player decide to just acknowledge that these are tools to keep the story unfolding in a certain order and manner? Like, if the story was being told in another format not controlled by a player, the characters probably wouldn't encounter these things, so I just see it as a matter of perspective.


Gameplay & story segregation is indeed a tricky matter when it comes to this sort of thing. The blocked off pathways, in my view, serve both as a gameplay implementation to help prevent the player from becoming lost (doesn't always work from what I've seen, lol) and as a slightly subtle way in that it could be interpreted as the "town" or what have you making sure that the protagonist doesn't stray too far from the "path". As we know, people aren't really allowed to leave the nightmare unless they meet whatever requirements there are.

'Incidentals' as I call them, people who are stuck in the nightmare due to someone else (e.g. Harry Mason and Henry Townshend) would only escape the nightmare when they eliminated the source of the nightmare, or in other words were allowed to leave by the source (Alessa allowed Travis to leave after he finished helping her, Harry was basically allowed to leave after stopping Incubus/Incubator).

Then you have the guilty who can only leave once the darkness in their hearts or whatever is finally removed/settled. Those are obviously people like James, Murphy, Alex (questionably). These people aren't allowed to leave the town/area they are in quite literally, as they will be either unable to leave the fog world/otherworld or the exits to the areas they are in are blocked indefinitely until they go 'where they're supposed to go' (or do what they have to.)

So I believe fate plays a little part in various ways in the series, but it's not necessarily a major shroud in the big picture of things.

As for whether or not one believes in fate IRL or not, that doesn't really have any bearing on Silent Hill since SH isn't real life, lol. As pointed out, SH is pretty supernatural overall, so something like fatalism isn't too far-fetched.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Gauss on Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:11 pm

NarooN wrote:
Gameplay & story segregation is indeed a tricky matter when it comes to this sort of thing. The blocked off pathways, in my view, serve both as a gameplay implementation to help prevent the player from becoming lost (doesn't always work from what I've seen, lol) and as a slightly subtle way in that it could be interpreted as the "town" or what have you making sure that the protagonist doesn't stray too far from the "path". As we know, people aren't really allowed to leave the nightmare unless they meet whatever requirements there are.


This
NarooN wrote:

As for whether or not one believes in fate IRL or not, that doesn't really have any bearing on Silent Hill since SH isn't real life, lol. As pointed out, SH is pretty supernatural overall, so something like fatalism isn't too far-fetched.



And this - like I said earlier. You could totally have fatalism in a weird universe like SH.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by CrazyCatLady on Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:37 pm

fromelmstreet wrote:1) Metaphysical or logical fatalism: the laws of logic or metaphysical laws of nature are such that events/actions are strongly (or weakly) determined

Strong: Our choices are not free and events are determined


These are my definitions of fate.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Xuchilbara on Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:02 pm

Determinism is the philosophy behind that.
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Fate in Silent Hill.

Post by Otherworld on Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:32 am

Being called and fate go hand in hand in Silent Hill. With multiple endings the protagonists final conclusion is determined by their search and realization of truth. But as Naroon pointed out earlier, the town sets a path that must be followed but free will still remains. All definitions of fate above play a part in Silent Hill.
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