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MissTolucaLake

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The term Nowhere

Post by MissTolucaLake on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:43 am

Yeah, so when I played Silent hill Origins I found out that he was in Nowhere, which Harry Mason was 7 years later. But I don't get it, what is Nowhere for place? To me it is somewhere, just like the Otherworld. It's much rust and darkness. It seems that neither Harry or Travis had a good map(well, I remember Travis had one drawed by a child, but that map was a bit... miss leading sometimes). Can someone expplain or have thought about the place called Nowhere? Or is it just a name?
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The term Nowhere

Post by gothlolilunatic on Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:49 am

It's a place between places, a gap between dimensions where everything is but at the same time nothing is.
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Gauss

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The term Nowhere

Post by Gauss on Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:02 am

TL;DR : Skip to 2 in this post.

1. The word "Outopia", derived from eu for "good", "ou for "not", and topos "place, - is latinized as "Utopia". The meaning Utopia is both "no-place-land" AND "good-place-land."

This is found in one of Thomas More's fictional work of political philosophy - on the idea of a society and what would need to obtain in order for a utopia to occur. Based on one of the translations of the word, the suggestion of no-place-land would be fitting because we get the implication that there is really no such thing as a utopia. Viewed this way in conjunction with what we see with Silent Hill, it would be especially appropriate with the focus on the cult trying to achieve some sort of utopia, which might ultimately be impossible to obtain.

This is just a thought however.

2. Nowhere in Silent Hill is the combination of many places (from memory really) so it could be a suggestion that that place - Nowhere - is no place in PARTICULAR, but rather the mixture of multiple spatiotemporally familiar locations at once. It's a jumble of such locations (from Alessa's memory) at once, so it would be fitting, in some sense, when asked, "Where are you?" in that situation, that you say, "Nowhere." I say spatiotemporal locations because the place is physically jarring in Silent Hill 1, but it also is a mixture of memories (hence space and time locations) from Alessa. It is a different layer of "reality" so to speak.

Since we're talking about Alessa's memories, it won't have a real physical correlate - so it would be Nowhere literally speaking. It also does not specifically correspond to points in Alessa's mind or memories and, since it is in Alessa's mind and memory, you can't map where it exactly is (if the mind could be mapped, you'd have no specific place to point to).

It also just sounds cool.

3. Nowhere is called "Unknown (The Last World)" in the Japanese version, which is far more fitting for the spatiotemporal location point I mention.

4. Given (3), it's probably just a bad translation and makes more sense to say that "area" of the game is really Unknown because in Silent Hill 1 - how would Harry know that it is Nowhere? Also, it doesn't seem like the point in (1) about where the word utopia is derived from would be relevant because that would mean that Travis and Harry would impose some sort of evaluation about the state of affairs around and that they link this state of affairs to some sort of conjecture about how these cultists are in a sense pursuing a "nowhere."
Last edited by Gauss on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:53 am.
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The term Nowhere

Post by Xuchilbara on Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:13 am

Nowhere doesn't occupy a space, i.e. it doesn't have a basis in physical reality unlike the other places.. It's within the confines of Alessa's mind or memories.

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"nowhere," a realm which is formed from memories.
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Gauss

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The term Nowhere

Post by Gauss on Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:44 am

MissTolucaLake wrote:Yeah, so when I played Silent hill Origins I found out that he was in Nowhere, which Harry Mason was 7 years later. But I don't get it, what is Nowhere for place? To me it is somewhere, just like the Otherworld. It's much rust and darkness. It seems that neither Harry or Travis had a good map(well, I remember Travis had one drawed by a child, but that map was a bit... miss leading sometimes). Can someone expplain or have thought about the place called Nowhere? Or is it just a name?


Since it is from Alessa's mind and memories, this is why the map doesn't really help. And Nowhere is like the Otherworld in the sense that some of the Otherworld is influenced by Alessa's mind.
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The term Nowhere

Post by nur_ein_tier on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:33 am

fromelmstreet wrote:

3. Nowhere is called "Unknown (The Last World)" in the Japanese version, which is far more fitting for the spatiotemporal location point I mention.

I was wondering about that when I read the thread title, thanks.

But yeah, I think it's probably called that because it's not a real place in and of itself, but a collection of memories of different places stuck together haphazardly.

But I think it seems distinct from the Otherworld because the Otherworld is usually just a slightly different-looking version of the regular world, maybe with some paths blocked off or something; whereas Nowhere doesn't have a counterpart; places are stuck together oddly and it feels more dreamlike.
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Gauss

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The term Nowhere

Post by Gauss on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:49 am

nur_ein_tier wrote:
But I think it seems distinct from the Otherworld because the Otherworld is usually just a slightly different-looking version of the regular world, maybe with some paths blocked off or something; whereas Nowhere doesn't have a counterpart; places are stuck together oddly and it feels more dreamlike.


Exactly! The Otherworld has physical correlates with the real world whereas Nowhere has no such physical correlate (though it might feel or look physically similar).
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The term Nowhere

Post by Naroon on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:31 am

Nowhere is quite literally nowhere, it doesn't occupy any actual physical space, it's more like a giant orgy of Alessa's memories randomly stuck together. It's easily the most surreal landscape the player can navigate in the entire series for this reason. It'd be cool if future developers would incorporate a Nowhere-esque level design in their game somewhere.
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The term Nowhere

Post by ÆNEMA on Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:49 pm

NarooN wrote:It'd be cool if future developers would incorporate a Nowhere-esque level design in their game somewhere.
I really liked the Nowhere segment in Shattered Memories, though it does kind of suck if you get "lost" in it.
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The term Nowhere

Post by CrazyCatLady on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:19 pm

A lot of the games seem to have a Nowhere segment. The Labyrinth in SH2 is more or less, Nowhere. In SH3, there are a few short parts that could be like a Nowhere. Like the two corridors before the Otherworld transition in Brookehaven. Along with the very end where you fight the final boss. I kind of liked to think of the spiral staircase in SH4 as a Nowhere. It's not based on a specific place. It's there and we're not sure what or where it is. Hell's Descent in Homecoming is like a Nowhere, along with where you fight Scarlett. And then there's the Nowhere in SM.
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The term Nowhere

Post by gothlolilunatic on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:32 pm

Downpour doesn't strictly have a Nowhere, but the Otherworld resembles Nowhere more than it does the Otherworld of other Silent Hill games. The game calls it the Otherworld, but personally I think it's more like he slips into Nowhere from time to time.
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The term Nowhere

Post by CrazyCatLady on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:39 pm

gothlolilunatic wrote:Downpour doesn't strictly have a Nowhere, but the Otherworld resembles Nowhere more than it does the Otherworld of other Silent Hill games. The game calls it the Otherworld, but personally I think it's more like he slips into Nowhere from time to time.


I was thinking that too. From what we've seen in the series, the Otherworld is supposed to be like a dark copy of the actual version. But the Otherworld in Downpour, really isn't. The Centennial Building Otherworld was nothing like the actual building. The layout was more like a Nowhere layout. The map was put together haphazardly, random corridors placed about, moving rooms and cages.
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The term Nowhere

Post by what on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:41 pm

I always thought of Nowhere (in the first game) as not a separate area or any less 'connected' to reality than what we previously see, but rather, it is the Otherworld Harry Mason has been striving to get through, the same locations and all. The Otherworld in this game is Alessa's creation, and Nowhere is that creation beginning to break down and lose any coherence it once had. It starts to happen once the Flauros neutralizes Alessa's powers, and it is those powers which are responsible for everything we see. She no longer has the ability to fully maintain her influence over the Otherworld, so all that is left are specific places which are personally very important to her, and they all connect directly together.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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The term Nowhere

Post by captain crowbar on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:04 pm

It's just nowhere.
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The term Nowhere

Post by Mercury on Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:32 am

what wrote:I always thought of Nowhere (in the first game) as not a separate area or any less 'connected' to reality than what we previously see, but rather, it is the Otherworld Harry Mason has been striving to get through, the same locations and all. The Otherworld in this game is Alessa's creation, and Nowhere is that creation beginning to break down and lose any coherence it once had. It starts to happen once the Flauros neutralizes Alessa's powers, and it is those powers which are responsible for everything we see. She no longer has the ability to fully maintain her influence over the Otherworld, so all that is left are specific places which are personally very important to her, and they all connect directly together.
This is essentially what I was going to post. The existence of Nowhere is due to Alessa losing control over her power and all of the elements of her memories and the nightmares blending together.

Walter's "Nowhere" is less like a maze and more like the core of his mind. It's where everything feeds into.
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The term Nowhere

Post by Vestige on Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:28 am

I sort of understand it like some sort of residual area that has elements of here and there but that in the end is nowhere. If it wasn't a memory then i'd think of imagination or fantasy, a creation, but i'm not saying this with any grounds to support it, it's just what came to my head when thinking about it from out the box.
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The term Nowhere

Post by Borg on Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:17 am

WhiteClaudia wrote:I was thinking that too. From what we've seen in the series, the Otherworld is supposed to be like a dark copy of the actual version. But the Otherworld in Downpour, really isn't. The Centennial Building Otherworld was nothing like the actual building. The layout was more like a Nowhere layout. The map was put together haphazardly, random corridors placed about, moving rooms and cages.


I was going to mention this, but wasn't sure if it qualifies as Nowhere, because technically it's still a dark copy of the actual version, but really messed up. For example, Centennial Building, it has parts of the clock etc. since the actual version was like a clock tower.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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The term Nowhere

Post by Mercury on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:49 am

Actually now that it's mentioned, wouldn't Homecoming's Nowhere be less like Hell Descent and more like Silent Hill itself with the placement of the buildings?
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The term Nowhere

Post by Floodclaw on Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:48 am

A little of Column A, a little of Column B, in my opinion. Silent Hill is still based on the real place, just...off. Not entirely Nowhere.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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The term Nowhere

Post by captain crowbar on Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:32 pm

Quantum Foam makes me roam.
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