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Ash

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Ash on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:04 am

Is the otherworld just another dimension with a set of different rules and laws? or is it just hell?

I was wondering, because when i travel to the other world, what one could consider a set of using conventional ideas doesn't seem to apply, because
REVEAL SPOILER
[finding a roasted dog with a roasted key inside[spoiler]
for an example, is not what you would normally find in our world, so the question is:What is influencing silent hill itself? is it the thin layer between realities that somehow influence that town? because at times, the otherworld is considered another dimension all together.

There is also the question regarding as to the origins of the goddess.Was she originally from the otherworld and came to the regular world? What would happen if heather mason dies? will the town stop skipping to the otherworld?
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Floodclaw on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:49 am

There's no real consensus on what the Otherworld is.
I, personally, think that it makes sense if you think of the world as having several layers that souls can travel between when given various prompts. Think of it like...like a house with two basements. It's all in the same house (reality) but you can travel between floors. Not at will, except in Travis's case. Even then, he can only travel between the basement levels, only being permitted to be on ground floor in the ending.

-Real World-
-Fog World-
-Otherworld-

I'm not sure what causes the stuff in the Otherworld, and there are just as many theories about that, too. I think that it's a kind of 'dream dimension' that has existed since the beginning of time, but is only channeled in certain spiritually inclined areas. Alessa was one who could tap into this 'dream layer', as evidenced by the events of Origins, 1 and 3. Nonetheless, all of the layers are connected, so locations and objects are similar, but not the same. In the deepest subconscious areas of this layer lies Nowhere.

As for God? Purramid_Head would be much more qualified to discuss this than me, but my general idea is that it's some sort of demon assuming the form of whatever its summoner believes to be God. For Alessa, I believe it was St. Jennifer. For Claudia, she looked like Alessa. Possibly from the Otherworld to begin with, maybe not. If Heather died, then God would simply wait for another spiritually-inclined being to be born. This is where our thoughts diverge. I don't believe that the town itself is being pulled into the Otherworld, but rather the souls and bodies of the people in the town. This is evidenced in Silent Hill 1 where, after finding the altar to God in the antique shop, Harry transitions to the Otherworld, and in this layer, leaves the secret entrance. Cybil is standing there in the fog world and doesn't see Harry come out. If the town was the one shifting, then Cybil would be in the Otherworld too, but she isn't.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Ash

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Ash on Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:25 pm

Then explain how harry went to the other world.Did Sheryl, or, known as Alessa, pull him into the otherworld? So she can pull people from the human world into the other world?

Is the other world then, the world of spirits? or is the fog world the world of spirits?
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Naroon on Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:59 pm

I think that there's only two actual "realms". The real world and the otherworld. The fog variant is still the otherworld, just like the "dark" world and Nowhere. They might be different layers or perceptions, but it's simply all in one category, the way I see it.

Origins shows how it was Alessa who made such an impact that she changed the power of the otherworld forever. The otherworld itself has existed long before Alessa, possibly since the dawn of time.

It was most likely Alessa who controlled the shifts in sh1, though I don't think she was actually aware of Harry's doings in that game. Silent Hill itself only has the power to manifest the darkness of people's hearts, although the otherworld itself can manifest anywhere.
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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by gothlolilunatic on Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:34 pm

I think that after Silent Hill 1, Alessa's influence weakens as she's reborn as Heather. Thus, the town can begin acting of its own accord (or by the accord of Valtiel in 3, who we see is the one controlling the Otherworld shifts for Heather), so the shifts are basically by the towns will. It can manifest in other places, but it can only do that if certain rituals are done (Silent Hill 4 and Homecoming show that). Also, I don't think it's purely the darkness in people's hearts that it manifests, but also fears and insecurities. People just tend to be very insecure of themselves, their actions and fear becoming terrible people. That's why those who do have that darkness tend to seek redemption.

I don't think a remorseless serial killer would have quite the same experience of Silent Hill that other protagonists do....I'd say Silent Hill 4 might be a good example of this, since the Otherworld is manifested from Walter's mind and it behaves differently as a result of this. It does not manifest the dark sides of his psyche, but the things he fears and is insecure about (the Ghosts of his victims are to torment him because he does not feel much in the way of real guilt for his crimes, the dogs that make the cougar noises represent his phobia of animals, the monkey men are his fear of people etc etc).

Then again, Walter created a localized version himself, so perhaps it's a bit different. I still believe it's a good example of how someone who feels no guilt for their crimes has a different Otherworld (or at least kinds of monsters) to someone who feels remorse for the things they've done or feel.
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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Naroon on Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:50 pm

Darkness doesn't always have to be evil or anything. Darkness could also be interpreted as negative emotions in general in this case. I also don't think rituals are actually needed as Claudia somehow became ridiculously powerful. She gives Heather a migraine headache seemingly just by thinking about it. Alessa had similar powers as she could kill someone just by willing it. Claudia probably just willed the Otherworlds shift too, though I have no way to prove that. Not a big deal anyway though lol.

But yeah, darkness would be supremely heavy emotions. Like how Angela was called. Although she wasn't totally innocent, she herself thought she needed to be punished.

I don't think Alessa's influence died down until after sh3. It could be argued that it got even more intense as sh3 went on, as she pretty much is Alessa, and she gradually regains her memories.
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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by gothlolilunatic on Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:54 pm

I think the headaches were just Heather trying to recall her memories of being Alessa, though that's just me. And good point about SH 3, though I'm not sure how much of Alessa's influence can be seen in 2 so it's possible Heather's return is what rekindled that influence.
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Ash

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Ash on Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:59 pm

gothlolilunatic wrote:I think the headaches were just Heather trying to recall her memories of being Alessa, though that's just me. And good point about SH 3, though I'm not sure how much of Alessa's influence can be seen in 2 so it's possible Heather's return is what rekindled that influence.


Question then:How much of heather's actual doing, and how much of valtiel's doing is it in sh3? because she gets a headache thing, and the world changes.You say alessa's gift weakened over time when she became heather.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by gothlolilunatic on Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:05 pm

Heather doesn't have any control over the transitions. Her being Alessa simply means the power of the town is altered somewhat. Pretty much all the transitions are done by Valtiel. Her headache is caused by the transition, that's all. And her gift didn't weaken, I said that her influence on the town weakened because she was reborn as Heather and taken away from the town, so she was no longer part of it.
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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Naroon on Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:12 pm

It could've been her trying to remember, that's true. I think I like that idea more, actually.

Yeah, remember the giant roach thingies in sh2? Those were imprints of Alessa. Though yes, after SH1, I think that her influence died down until sh3.

Valtiel was responsible for most of the shifts in the game, and for watching over Heather, Mother of God. If she died, he'd have to resurrect her. The appearance of the otherworld as well as most of the creatures was Alessa/Heather.
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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Floodclaw on Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:39 pm

Floodclaw wrote: I don't believe that the town itself is being pulled into the Otherworld, but rather the souls and bodies of the people in the town. This is evidenced in Silent Hill 1 where, after finding the altar to God in the antique shop, Harry transitions to the Otherworld, and in this layer, leaves the secret entrance. Cybil is standing there in the fog world and doesn't see Harry come out. If the town was the one shifting, then Cybil would be in the Otherworld too, but she isn't.


Apologies for diverting the topic, but I do want to see what people think about this.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Naroon on Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:51 pm

Yeah Flood, that goes along with my thoughts. Nothing else really makes sense. That is also somewhat paralled in Wally World, where if one is owned in WW, one is owned IRL as well. Plus if the whole town had shifted, wouldn't people complain? Wouldn't the town be abandoned? „Wouldn't the town get nuked?
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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Borg on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:10 am

Yeah, kind of like Henry's situation in 4. He's trapped in his apartment, sees others and yells, bangs at the door but it's like he's not there, other people simply can't hear him.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Ash

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Ash on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:00 am

Regarding silent hill 1:Was valtiel also opening the gate to the otherworld too for harry? and why?
Why would a possible servant to the goddess want to disrupt the coming of the goddess?
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Floodclaw on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:32 am

In Silent Hill 1, Alessa was controlling the ebb and flow of the Otherworld. Or influencing it, at the very least.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Naroon on Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:28 pm

Ash wrote:Regarding silent hill 1:Was valtiel also opening the gate to the otherworld too for harry? and why?
Why would a possible servant to the goddess want to disrupt the coming of the goddess?


Alessa controlled the shifts, or was at least responsible for them. Valtiel's form appeared in SH1, but only as the corpses covered in the ceremonial robes.
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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by what on Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:35 pm

Ash wrote:Is the otherworld just another dimension with a set of different rules and laws? or is it just hell?


The use of the term 'dimension' is testy because so much conflict has resulted from it.

My best impression is that it is completely distinct from the real world except for being accessible from it. Whether that makes it a layer of reality or an alternate dimension or a different universe altogether is rather beside the point.

It seems to be the case that those who enter it observe and interact with it in a mostly subjective way, it is real for them but others may see and interpret the same location very differently. I think there is some overlap, and their subjective experiences may override the subjective experiences of other people. Certain people with special powers can actively manipulate or influence their experience, and force others to participate.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Ash

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Ash on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:14 am

That makes sense.

Cybil in the fair, was in the otherworld while posessed.I am curious exactly what possessed her, and after you save her if you do, if she wasn't in the same world and experiencing it,She never once saw what harry saw in those worlds, and often he would appear and disappear into another world that was shaped by other people's experiences, and he would talk to the nurse.That makes me wonder:was the nurse lisa trapped in the otherworld? because we never once see her in the fog world.Also:Is alessa subconciously doing the moving to the to the otherworld, to help harry help her? Maybe she is being careful, because dahlia is trying to control her.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by gothlolilunatic on Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:44 am

It looks like the same thing that controls the puppet nurses in the hospital got Cybil. I can't confirm that for certain, but how I remember it, it looked a lot like the same parasite-type thing.
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Regarding reality in silent hill

Post by Naroon on Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:58 pm

Cybil was being controlled by the parasite creature, the same one that was controlling the others. Not to imply that there is a "master!, parasite somewhere. I'm sure that the parasite is yet another creature spawned by Alessa. She obviously didn't like hospitals nor the staff contained in them.

Harry was being teleported seemingly at random, which says to me that Alessa wasn't totally aware of Harry's doing. Unless Alessa was omnipotent, how would she know?

Lisa, as she herself reveals to Harry in a poignant cutscene moment, was already dead and thus, "like the others" (nurses) the whole time.
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