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Xuchilbara

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Mazoku vs Shinzoku *spoilers*

Post by Xuchilbara on Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:05 pm

Watching a lot of Slayers has opened doors to me on mythos in Asia, specifically Hindu, Buddhist, and Japanese folklore. I'm beginning to think the "false" god motif of the Eye of Night or "God" can be explained.

In Japanese myths, taken from the Hindu/Buddhist concept of Asura (another set of gods, later translated as "demons".) and Devas (gods), mazoku literally means "demon race" or "evil race". These beings, which higher level ones can be as powerful as gods, are beings that thrive on chaos. They feed off of negative emotions of people. Their opposites are the shinzoku, or literally "god race" that benefit from worship and positive emotions. Both races are from chaos.

I am thinking the "god" in Silent Hill 1 and 3 is a mazoku, and possibly in 4. But I want to concentrate on the first 3 games. In 1 God feeds off of Alessa's nightmare, in 3 it's Heather's hatred. This would be comparable to a mazoku. It causes chaos, it's monstrous, and the world is much too twisted to be paradise. It invokes negative emotions that it feeds off of. This make complete sense. It's pretty clear in 1 and 3 that what Dahlia and Claudia call god is far from it.

The gods [shinzoku] benefit from positive emotions, which can be compared to how the town was a sacred place to Natives. They are rarely seen, rather they are felt. Their influence is not as prominent looking as the mazoku, but they manifest in more positive ways and benefit from things such as Harry's love for Heather and James for his wife. I believe 1 and 3 is made by Alessa/Mazoku, and also Claudia later. And 2 is a shinzoku's work, who is never seen. 2 is a much more positive game because it's a man finding redemption.
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Post by Naroon on Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:52 pm

Makes sense to me. Someone else said something along these lines a few years ago over at GFAQs, and people generally agreed that it made sense.
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Xuchilbara

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Mazoku vs Shinzoku *spoilers*

Post by Xuchilbara on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:55 am

I'm glad I'm not the only one! But I'm also surprised I wasn't the only one to think of it! :D I think I have a few SH videos to make when I have the time. One on the sun mythos and then one on this one. I'll go into more depth in the video, as it's much easier to explain. :)
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Mazoku vs Shinzoku *spoilers*

Post by Borg on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:15 am

Wow, that's pretty neat, you have all kinds of cool info :)
 
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

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Mazoku vs Shinzoku *spoilers*

Post by Xuchilbara on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:32 am

Thanks. ^^;
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Mothersdecent

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Mazoku vs Shinzoku *spoilers*

Post by Mothersdecent on Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:50 pm

I doubt Alessa is a Mazoku, much rather it be Alessa turned Shinzoku into a Mazoku (or the events involving Alessa) and it remained that way through out SH2,3,4 etc.

Also, i don't really see SH2 as being positive, as i said it fits more the profile of Mazoku, seeing how SH2 revolves around James' torment.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Xuchilbara on Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:30 am

Mothersdecent wrote:I doubt Alessa is a Mazoku, much rather it be Alessa turned Shinzoku into a Mazoku (or the events involving Alessa) and it remained that way through out SH2,3,4 etc.


I never said Alessa was a mazoku.

Also, i don't really see SH2 as being positive, as i said it fits more the profile of Mazoku, seeing how SH2 revolves around James' torment.


Mazoku do not 'punish' people. They are not ones of justifiable acts. It is the gods who are about justice. James finds his redemption in Silent Hill. If it were a mazoku's work he would have just killed himself. Plus, there's some evidence that Xuchilpaba is behind it.
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Post by Mothersdecent on Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:51 am

Purramid_Head wrote:I never said Alessa was a mazoku.


Purramid_Head wrote: I believe 1 and 3 is made by Alessa/Mazoku


This made me believe you did.


Purramid_Head wrote:Mazoku do not 'punish' people. They are not ones of justifiable acts. It is the gods who are about justice. James finds his redemption in Silent Hill. If it were a mazoku's work he would have just killed himself. Plus, there's some evidence that Xuchilpaba is behind it.


Nothing points to James' being called to SH to redeem himself. His visit to the town seems more like a punishment for his sins than anything else, and he did kill himself in the In water ending which could be considered cannon seeing how Henry mentions Frank's son disappeared in SH never to be heard of again.
Again, SH2 is much more negative than positive.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Mazoku vs Shinzoku *spoilers*

Post by Borg on Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:55 am

Well, the town gives him a chance to redeem for his sins and start a new life, it all depends on his actions.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

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Post by Xuchilbara on Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:02 am

Mothersdecent wrote:
Purramid_Head wrote:I never said Alessa was a mazoku.


Purramid_Head wrote: I believe 1 and 3 is made by Alessa/Mazoku


This made me believe you did.


I meant that as two entities. I was saying incubus = mazoku.


Nothing points to James' being called to SH to redeem himself. His visit to the town seems more like a punishment for his sins than anything else, and he did kill himself in the In water ending which could be considered cannon seeing how Henry mentions Frank's son disappeared in SH never to be heard of again.
Again, SH2 is much more negative than positive.


No, all the endings can have him disappearing and not returning. Some have him staying in the otherworld.

The tablets of the 3 sinners; James, Eddie, and Angela states "I give thee blood for the 3 sins" when you put them in the slots. The town calls those with darkness in their hearts and the other gods were created to lead people unto obdience to God. The Crimson Tome also hints at all of this. "The lies and the mist aren't they but I. [....] That my judgements be obedied even under the proud and merciless sun."
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Post by Mothersdecent on Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:10 am

Purramid_Head wrote:No, all the endings can have him disappearing and not returning. Some have him staying in the otherworld.


Correct, but that doesn't stop the in water ending from lingering and possibly being cannon.

Purramid_Head wrote:The tablets of the 3 sinners; James, Eddie, and Angela states "I give thee blood for the 3 sins" when you put them in the slots. The town calls those with darkness in their hearts and the other gods were created to lead people unto obdience to God. The Crimson Tome also hints at all of this. "The lies and the mist aren't they but I. [....] That my judgements be obedied even under the proud and merciless sun."


I just don't see it. Sorry.
I still believe their ordeal and suffering would benefit a Mazoku more than anything else.
This is all going by the topic of this thread, the games never mention this subject.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

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Mazoku vs Shinzoku *spoilers*

Post by Xuchilbara on Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:14 am

All the endings of 2 have the possibility of being canon. Why is it logical for James to come back when people realize something is wrong with his story about Mary?

A mazoku has no reason to help someone redeem themselves and end up saving their life. But believe whatever you wish.
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Post by Mothersdecent on Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:38 am

A Mazoku is the reason SH2 can happen in the first place, pre-Alessa is Shinozoku (feeding off the native's worship and whatnot) Post-Alessa is Mazoku, feeding off people's darkness and sins.
SH2 doesn't help anyone redeem themselves, Angela gets consumed by her flames, Eddie gets consumed by his rage, going along with this pattern, James get consumed by his sadness which could lead to In water ending being the most probable one.
 
 
 
 
 
 

what

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Mazoku vs Shinzoku *spoilers*

Post by what on Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:01 am

Nothing points to James' being called to SH to redeem himself. His visit to the town seems more like a punishment for his sins than anything else, and he did kill himself in the In water ending which could be considered cannon seeing how Henry mentions Frank's son disappeared in SH never to be heard of again.


It's 2012 and people still believe this. :c
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Mothersdecent on Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:22 am

People who think time is relevant to what other people believe :c
 
 
 
 
 
 

what

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Post by what on Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:28 am

Well, some people insist the world is flat, so.

Protip: "disappeared" and "dead", though they begin with the same letter, are not synonyms.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Mothersdecent on Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:55 pm

Notice how i said it COULD be considered cannon not that it was.
Reading comprehension fail.
 
 
 
 
 
 

what

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Post by what on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:42 pm

Except, it can't. The game has no canon ending. James disappears no matter which ending he gets. The fact of his disappearance does not, in any way, point to In Water as possibly being canon. Except to those with special reading abilities, I guess?

Also, I'd thank you to not insult mine until you can spell 'canon' properly.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Mothersdecent on Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:30 pm

Actually, it can if James was to follow the pattern the doomed Angela and Eddie followed. Now i'm not discrediting the other endings (Maria ending is highly probable too) but In Water makes the most sense. And i fail to see how your "special reading abilities" comment is appropriate seeing how you said his disappearance doesn't point to In Water being canon, did you read or play SH2? Unless you meant Special comprehension abilities, in whichever case, still would be inappropriate.

Also, my spelling mistake didn't stop you from carrying a conversation about the subject with me, so i'm guessing you read that part fine.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Borg on Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:33 pm

We don't know what happened to Angela, so we can't really say she's "doomed".
 
 
 
 
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