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Tlaloc

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Tlaloc on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:01 am

It contains nudity.

SDjilliaRE, Please don't sarcastically disrespect staff for our decisions.

Tlaloc, Silent Hill does not contain nudity nor even the superimposed equivocation.

Thread locked.


This is a outright lie. SH2 has monsters that are symbols of Mary's vagina, SH3 has a monster that is basically a giant phallus not too mention the hole Claudia gets into at the end with the Valiel is a symbol of a birth canal. SH2's lying figures also have butts.

And then let's talk about the new games shall we? SHH's monsters have a BDSM theme going on and when I was playing the game my friend exclaimed "Those monsters are naked!" on the police station part. Remember the Asphyxia boss? A total nude woman with multiple asses. And what about the light pictures from 1? Oh look a nude woman!

Image

I can provide pictorial documents from each and every SH game I just mentioned as proof of not only sexually suggestive themes, but also of nudity.

Edit by John: The posts has been split from the complaints topic to make things on-topic.
 
 
 
 
 
 

ERROR

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by ERROR on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:02 am

Xuchilbara left because she couldn't handle my criticism of her racist comments.

>SH2 has monsters that are symbols of Mary's vagina
Source me.
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Tlaloc

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Tlaloc on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:07 am

ERROR wrote:>SH2 has monsters that are symbols of Mary's vagina
Source me.


"Flesh Lip

area: Hospital

character: Lattice-based monster that hangs from the ceiling and
attacks

metaphor: "Lustful lips." The lattice, which signifies a bed, and
the "mouth" located on the abdomen symbolize Mary.

Flesh Lip: rough sketch

IMAGE: sketch of the creature
A rough sketch that is very similar to the final design. Instead of
a "mouth," a protuberance is visible in the abdominal area."

http://silenthillchronicle.net/creat2.htm
 
 
 
 
 
 

ERROR

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by ERROR on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:43 am

Maybe I'm illiterate, but I didn't read "vagina," or anything of the sort, anywhere in that description.
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Floodclaw

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Floodclaw on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:47 am

ERROR wrote:Maybe I'm illiterate, but I didn't read "vagina," or anything of the sort, anywhere in that description.


More of symbolism than anything. You don't have to take comments so literally.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Mercury on Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:10 am

Tlaloc wrote:This is a outright lie. SH2 has monsters that are symbols of Mary's vagina, SH3 has a monster that is basically a giant phallus not too mention the hole Claudia gets into at the end with the Valiel is a symbol of a birth canal. SH2's lying figures also have butts.

And then let's talk about the new games shall we? SHH's monsters have a BDSM theme going on and when I was playing the game my friend exclaimed "Those monsters are naked!" on the police station part. Remember the Asphyxia boss? A total nude woman with multiple asses. And what about the light pictures from 1? Oh look a nude woman!

I can provide pictorial documents from each and every SH game I just mentioned as proof of not only sexually suggestive themes, but also of nudity.
When I read that, I thought of FuKuRo, which hints to hardcore rape and bondage, while showing cleavage and exposed breasts. The entire video has a looping track of a woman's orgasm, as does the hospital room with Eileen's head in SH4.

The birth canal/vaginal and/or phallic references are expressed heavily in Silent Hills 2-4. Not to mention the themes of rape, molestation, and torture in SH2.

@ERROR: It doesn't flat out say it, but it hints to it. The fact that the words, "Lustful," "Lips," and "Mouth" are all in quotations tell you what it's hinting to.
ya fuckin rite
 
 
 
 
 

ERROR

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by ERROR on Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:22 am

"Lustful" and "lips" don't have to be about the vagina—more specifically, the vulva. To me, the exaggerated lips imply just that: lips. James didn't even kiss Mary goodbye—just a peck on the forehead. I relate the "lip" comment to that.

>Not to mention the themes of rape, molestation, and torture in SH2.
There is no rape in the Silent Hill series.
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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Mercury on Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:30 am

If it's implied that Angela's father molested her and beat her up, that to me says rape. No means no, and obviously she didn't want it.
ya fuckin rite
 
 
 
 
 

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Floodclaw on Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:13 am

ERROR wrote:There is no rape in the Silent Hill series.


Pyramid Head.
 
 
 
 
 
 

ERROR

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by ERROR on Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:18 am

>If it's implied that Angela's father molested her and beat her up, that to me says rape.
Technically molestation isn't rape. Equally reprehensible, but not rape.

>Pyramid Head.
Kills monsters. Doesn't rape.
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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Caow on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:28 am

ERROR wrote:>Pyramid Head.
Kills monsters. Doesn't rape.


It seems to me as though he kills monsters BY raping them, but I could just have a sick mind.
How l-lewd...
 
 
 
 
 

Tlaloc

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Tlaloc on Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:34 am

SDjilliaRE wrote:If it's implied that Angela's father molested her and beat her up, that to me says rape. No means no, and obviously she didn't want it.


When she is taliking to James it's implied of rape... "You could just force me. Beat me up like he always did." Also, Angela's monsters that suggest two figures on a bed doing it.

Angela's tablet has a nude figure as well.

Yeah Fukuro is what I thought of too. I have plenty of suggestive pictures from that video. But SHH is another one. It has a lot of bondage monsters and most of them are pretty nude and humanoid. Even Asphyxia is a monster made up of multiple naked people.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by perfected_sound on Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:51 am

ERROR wrote:>If it's implied that Angela's father molested her and beat her up, that to me says rape.
Technically molestation isn't rape. Equally reprehensible, but not rape.

>Pyramid Head.
Kills monsters. Doesn't rape.


You can't be serious?
You know that it's artistic metaphor, but you still keep going.
You don't have to disagree with everyone.
 
 
 
 
 
 

ERROR

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by ERROR on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:44 pm

>You can't be serious?
I can. And am.

>You don't have to disagree with everyone.
I don't. I disagree w/ what I believe is wrong.

>Angela's monsters that suggest two figures on a bed doing it.
The monsters are James', not Angela's. And I disagree. I see someone killing someone else.

Additionally, the monsters seen in the game represent what James did to Mary, not what Mary did to James. Taking that into consideration, shouldn't the monster that Angela sees—the Ideal Father—depict what Angela did to Thomas?

I believe that the Ideal Father is a depiction of Angela killing Thomas Orosco. Note how the first time James encounters the Ideal Father is immediately after he reads the article about Thomas' murder. We made the connection that Angela did it, James would too. James has no idea that Angela was possibly molested until after he's killed the Ideal Father, so to say that the monster is a representation of Angela's molestation based on James' knowledge is impossible.

Why, also, would Angela's "ideal father"—because, yes, the official name of this monster is "Ideal Father," not "Abstract Daddy"—be one that's molesting her? That doesn't make sense.

>"You could just force me. Beat me up like he always did."
This line isn't in the Japanese script.

Angela was abused, yes. Sexually? Unlikely.
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Tlaloc

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Tlaloc on Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:10 pm

ERROR wrote:>Angela's monsters that suggest two figures on a bed doing it.
The monsters are James', not Angela's. And I disagree. I see someone killing someone else.

Additionally, the monsters seen in the game represent what James did to Mary, not what Mary did to James. Taking that into consideration, shouldn't the monster that Angela sees—the Ideal Father—depict what Angela did to Thomas?

I believe that the Ideal Father is a depiction of Angela killing Thomas Orosco. Note how the first time James encounters the Ideal Father is immediately after he reads the article about Thomas' murder. We made the connection that Angela did it, James would too. James has no idea that Angela was possibly molested until after he's killed the Ideal Father, so to say that the monster is a representation of Angela's molestation based on James' knowledge is impossible.


"Abstract Daddy

area: Labyrinth, hotel

character: Attacks by attempting to grab and envelop its victim

metaphor: "Ideal father." On top of its bed-like form are two covered
reclining figures. A symbol of Angela's past. "



This line isn't in the Japanese script.

Angela was abused, yes. Sexually? Unlikely.


Really? Then in game evidence for it must be lying! Including the Seductress tabelet and the abstract daddy.

Oh and are you fluent in Japanese? Because from what I have been seeing we must be playing two different games.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by ERROR on Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:55 pm

Quoting Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle doesn't really dispute anything, just so you know. "A symbol of Angela's past" refutes nothing that I've said: Everyone knows that Angela was abused. However, w/out the monster's interpretation, there's no evidence of her being sexually abused.

>Then in game evidence for it must be lying!
There is no in game evidence, only interpretation of information. Nothing in the game explicitly states "Angela was raped/molested"; nothing in supplementary material explicitly states "Angela was raped/molested." Additionally, the one actual piece of evidence (discussed below) isn't even in the Japanese script. That leaves you w/ nothing but fan-fiction.

>from what I have been seeing we must be playing two different games.
The reason people are convinced that Angela was sexually abused by her father is because of the line you quoted earlier, "You could just force me. Beat me up like he always did." However, as I already said, this line is not in the Japanese script—it was added by Jeremy Blaustein, who translated the game into English. As has been pointed out—by Mr. Blaustein and others—he took several liberties w/ the English translation.

>Including the Seductress tabelet and the abstract daddy.
Did you bother reading what I said about the Abstract Daddy? Why would Angela consider an image of her father molesting her to be "ideal"? The notion that an ideal father is a dead father is more logical—thus why I consider the design to be of a person killing another person, this way it also applies to James & Mary. After all: James sees several more in the hotel. Why would he if the image was only applicable to Angela?

He wouldn't.

The Seductress tablet isn't evidence, either. If you look closely, the woman depicted on the tablet is nearly identical to the woman being strangled in the Oppressor tablet. Kinda like Mary and Maria. . . .
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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by The-Quez on Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:33 pm

I wouldn't say any of the Silent Hill games had much at all in the way of EXPLICIT nudity or sex of any kind. However, that just means what's there isn't gratuitous and is more artfully presented. There IS a LOT of implication, and not all of it is entirely subtle by any means. :|
 
 
 
 
 
 

Tlaloc

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by Tlaloc on Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:08 pm

ERROR wrote:The Seductress tablet isn't evidence, either. If you look closely, the woman depicted on the tablet is nearly identical to the woman being strangled in the Oppressor tablet. Kinda like Mary and Maria. . . .


Actually you're wrong. The image on the Seductress tablet of of Mayahuel page 9 of the Codex laud and the image of the Opressor tablet is someone who is the image of Tezcatlipoca, most likely the woman is the image of one of his wives. Mayahuel does not have a connection to Tezcatlipoca (And she is not one of his wives.), she has a connection to Quetzalcoatl and a very sexual one at that. the story with her and the alcoholic pulque drink/maguey plant has a bunch of sexual symbolism in it. That plant behind her is a maguey plant because she's associated with drunkenness.

let's also look at the way Angela behaves. she fits the psychological profile of someone sexual abused.

But since you seem to be ignoring evidence that Angela was sexual abused, including the location of where the tablet was found, keep on with your beliefs. it's seems clear to me and just about everyone else in this thread that Angela was sexually abused. The name of a monster proves absolutely nothing and could even be a 'joke' because Angela's father was not a very good one. Obviously he is not a ideal father.

Also, it was confirmed that the tablets are representations of the three sinners; James, Eddie, Angela. Angela's tablet is the Seductress, refuting your statements about what the woman looks like & some kind of connection to James.

You see not everything in SH2 has to do with James, and the town was said to call people w/ darkness in their hearts. Angela and Eddie are suffering nightmarish delusions as well, not just James.

You never answered me about fluency in Japanese. I think you ought to be careful saying what the script says this and that because you do not know how to read said script in the first place. Also, how do we know the Japanese script is any more canon than the English? Many things have been changed in SH series over the past few years. Such as instead of Alessa's burning ritual being done in the basement [cellar] as SH1 guidebook notes, it was done in the attic in origins.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by ERROR on Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:52 pm

>it's seems clear to me and just about everyone else in this thread that Angela was sexually abused.
A general belief does not give it any more credence. In fact, for years people thought that the final boss of Silent Hill was called Samael. They were all wrong.

>since you seem to be ignoring evidence that Angela was sexual abused
You seem to be ignoring everything I've said that refutes the idea that she was sexually abused.

>The name of a monster proves absolutely nothing
No, the name alone does not. However, you are failing to take anything else into consideration—which is typical of people who are afraid of their firmly set beliefs being challenged.

The name, by the way, isn't a "joke."

>including the location of where the tablet was found
A shower, yes, I know. I made that observation in 2001 before anyone else.

>Obviously he is not a ideal father.
That's part of your problem. You believe that the monster is Thomas Orosco. It's not. It's a monster. And the way this monster is being presented is in a way that suggests one person is killing another: Angela killing Thomas, James killing Mary. To Angela, the ideal father is a dead father.

Disregard what you've been told to believe for one second and think about that.

Why would the representation of an ideal father be one person molesting another? That simply doesn't make sense. At all. In fact, it's absurd.

>she fits the psychological profile of someone sexual abused.
She fits the profile of someone who has been abused, like a dog that's been neglected.

>Also, how do we know the Japanese script is any more canon than the English?
Not this again. . . .Japanese writers of a Japanese script from a Japanese company producing a Japanese game > English translation

>Many things have been changed in SH series over the past few years.
You're right, but never by the original developers. Only American (or English-speaking) members have retconned information w/in the series. Until the Silent Hill series changed continents, everything was cohesive. But then the English translations started to show discrepancies from the Japanese script, and the American developers started changing facts.
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Silent Hill series nudity symbolism [Mature themes]

Post by 21121 on Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:12 pm

ERROR wrote:They were all wrong.


This seems to be a reccuring theme.




Ok. I'm not sure how to rebutt anything you say because most of it ignores the most simple facts of life. I'll see if I can hit on as many as I can.


Lusty lips: a vagina. Sex ed thought me that.

The monster is name Angela's Papa, or the Abstract Daddy. This may be a hint. The monster cannot represent someone killing another person because look where the other's head is. Unless it's penis is a knife, it's sex.

Saying that the Japanese text > English text is the most idiotic thing I've heard all day. Let me explain why:

How many of the people here or even people that you know played SH2 in japanese the first time they played it? Ok, now think of this, 90% of the things we discuss here are OUR THEORIES. Or ones of people we know. Did they play it in Japanese? Were they even aware of the change? Probably not. So who the hell cares? "It's not what the writers meant it to be!" Well screw them. I mean even though it's the developer's game they listen to us, they are scared that they'll make another The Room.


These games are what we make them be. They symbolizes what we see. Not as one person (made me laugh the amount times your answer include the word "I") but as a collective, and if you cannot deal with that, go theories with like minded people. Some people refuse the idea of SH2 being psychologically based because it doesn't fit with the rest of the series, but it's what it is. IT'S A FREAKING VIDEOGAME. Enjoy it and then GTFO.
 
 
 
 
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