Silent Hill should have an END

[Purramid_Head]

Yamaoka was still around for HC, Origins, and SM. As for the "last creative mind behind the series". That's hogwash. Toyama started the SH storyline and left after 1, leaving his co-worker Owaku to do the rest. Not even counting all the people who left before 4.

[nur_ein_tier]

And who, exactly, has failed to "show respect for the series?" While some titles may have been hit or miss, I fail to believe ANY team hired to make a SH game has looked at each other and said, "Let's fuck this up real bad because we don't respect the series' creators!" No one has said that. While some games may have failed to be good games, they weren't intended to be disrespectful to anyone. Any team working on it has wanted to succeed, I'm sure. I don't understand this POV, unless it's saying Konami is being disrespectful by outsourcing to other devs. That doesn't work, either, since Konami is a business that wants to succeed.

And yes, "Team Silent" had a revolving cast of characters, so they were hardly one cohesive team. The only thing these people had in common was that they worked fro KCET and they were talented devs.

[jam6i]

Silent Hill does not belong to "Team Silent". Heck, it doesn't belong to Konami.

Silent Hill is a unique vehicle for spinning tales that is owned by makers and players alike. It's been around long enough to where long time fans are actually making the games, and listening to those still playing. It's a massive collaboration effort that, ultimately, belongs to the world.

And the world is always changing. Therefore the games must change. If something remains static, it is doomed to failure. Had Team Silent kept churning out games, nothing would have matched their previous work. Even 4 shows that they were wanting to change things up. It was surely inevitable that the series would evolve, and those who are adament about a return to the glory days should take off those rose tinted glasses and realize that it's only in retrospect that we form our most resilient personal opinions.

Homecoming, Shattered Memories, and Downpour all gave us unique gamng experiences in which we were taken to places and forced to do things never done before in a game. Despite individual flaws, they each offer their own spin on the Silent Hill universe, and in the end each are more or less satisfying experiences.

It would sadden me, personally, if I had such crushing pessimism about "non team silent games" that I refused to recognize what brilliance each game actually does bring to the table. Just enjoy the tales, and stop living in a past that, at the time, was not even as great as you imagine it to be.

[gustavopi]

Wow! Well done, jam6i. I don't know if I agree with all you say, but it's very a interesting point of view. I'll just add to the second paragraph that Konami got the power upon the franchise, even if doesn't own it.

Trying to answer my own question, I think the concept of Silent Hill is something like New York: the city is the protagonist. New York is a cosmopolite city that is always changing in order to adapt to new times, but it's always New York. But a real city got self intelligence and Silent Hill is a creation, so the new creators got the hard job to adapt the city to the new times keeping it's identity, if they can't, people will not wanna play it, new games will not sell and Silent Hill will die - simple like this.

I'm new fan, I came into this universe (I like this word) in 2006 and walk backwards to find what make this game so cool and so unique, a different point of view than old 1999 fans. To me, the main protagonist is the city. Without "she", there is no Alessa, James will be drinking in some bar with cheap hockers, Heater will be choosing a newer dress and etc.. To make it work, the idea must to be expanded to a intense story with complex characters - like real life, and also a good game programming is needed. As I read, Downpour is almost like this.

[what]

Silent Hill is done for me. It ended in 2004.

Then, I have to admit curiosity: what keeps you so interested in a series that died eight years ago that you still feel compelled to join a message board and talk about it?

Not saying this is wrong, but if I lose interest in something, I tend to move on to something else.

[Noname6]

Silent Hill is done for me. It ended in 2004.

Then, I have to admit curiosity: what keeps you so interested in a series that died eight years ago that you still feel compelled to join a message board and talk about it?

Not saying this is wrong, but if I lose interest in something, I tend to move on to something else.

I still have an interest in the first four games, which is why I am here.

I have stated my views. No one has to agree with me, and I don't expect it, so that's that.

[Augophthalmoses]

Silent Hill does not belong to "Team Silent". Heck, it doesn't belong to Konami.

Silent Hill is a unique vehicle for spinning tales that is owned by makers and players alike. It's been around long enough to where long time fans are actually making the games, and listening to those still playing. It's a massive collaboration effort that, ultimately, belongs to the world.

And the world is always changing. Therefore the games must change. If something remains static, it is doomed to failure. Had Team Silent kept churning out games, nothing would have matched their previous work. Even 4 shows that they were wanting to change things up.

Not just SH4. SH2 differs from the first game in many ways except gameplay which was, for the most part, a copy and paste with minimal enhancements. The most notable of which were the improved controls and being able to combine items together for puzzles.

[Q. Valintyne]

What would be the actual ending and, more importantly, who would be given the responsibility of creating the conclusion to a series that started in another group of people's hands?

We could always nuke Silent Hill.

Silent Hill is done for me. It ended in 2004. The final nail in the coffin was the departure of Akira Yamaoka, who was the last remaining creative mind behind the original series.

He was getting tired of it. You can really tell with the Shattered Memories soundtrack. It's boring and not up to par. The work with Homecoming was fantastic, but Shattered Memories was lacking for a lot of reasons. There were no real gripping or eerie melodies present at all. You can argue "he was trying to make a different atmosphere" all you want, but that doesn't account for half-assed work.

The bottom line is that as long as Silent Hill is bringing in a profit Konami will continue to green light sequels.

This is true for any series, really.

Excluding all other factors, the sales of the first two games alone are what's sustaining the series right now.

That's a rather facetious thing to say, don't you think? Earlier you said that Konami will continue to make Silent Hill games as long as it is "bringing in a profit." Obviously, it still is. I don't see how you can honestly say the sales of the first two are sustaining the series financially. Most people who purchase these games are buying them at secondhand stores, flea markets, online, or Gamestop. If I'm not mistaken, you can't even buy them from the manufacturer anymore. And if you can, you'd probably pay a pretty penny for them.

[NarooN]

A pretty penny is correct. Wanna buy them brand new from Konami?

From amazon, all prices for new sealed copies:

Silent Hill 1 (original black label): $230.00
Silent Hill 2 (original black label): $79.98

Yes, you can also buy SH1 off the PS Store for a much more reasonable price, which is what most people do.

Silent Hill 3: $79.98
Silent Hill 4: $71.98

So yeah, I highly doubt the sales of SH1 & 2 are somehow the only things keeping the series afloat. That's a truly ridiculous thing to say, lol.

And those were just PS2 prices... The Xbox version of SH2 is friggin' $99.99, lol.

[Noname6]

A pretty penny is correct. Wanna buy them brand new from Konami?

From amazon, all prices for new sealed copies:

Silent Hill 1 (original black label): $230.00
Silent Hill 2 (original black label): $79.98

Yes, you can also buy SH1 off the PS Store for a much more reasonable price, which is what most people do.

Silent Hill 3: $79.98
Silent Hill 4: $71.98

So yeah, I highly doubt the sales of SH1 & 2 are somehow the only things keeping the series afloat. That's a truly ridiculous thing to say, lol.

And those were just PS2 prices... The Xbox version of SH2 is friggin' $99.99, lol.

What I meant to say is that the financial success of the first two games (which are the highest selling in the entire series) is what has sanctioned all of the sequels/spin offs. I'm not saying that right now the sales of SH1 or SH2 are sustaining the series, but that those past games were hits and you wouldn't have any sequels without them. Think of it like Halloween. The first one was a hit, so they continue to make them because there is a built in fanbase that ensures success. That's Silent Hill at this point.

The first two games have such a strong reputation that the series is coasting on the reputation of those two games alone. Other than that, I have to agree that the Homecoming soundtrack is one of the best in the entire series. Too bad the game doesn't live up.

[NarooN]

Isn't that how just about every other game series EVER works, though? And most of the current fans didn't come in until the movie way back in 2006. No doubt we'll get yet another wave of new fans when the second film comes out in a few months.

The reason more SH games keep getting made is because they all keep selling. HC sold enough, so they did SM. That sold enough, so they did DP. At this point, it doesn't really have anything to do with the earlier games.

[nur_ein_tier]

A pretty penny is correct. Wanna buy them brand new from Konami?

From amazon, all prices for new sealed copies:

Those are actually prices for new games sold by 3rd party sellers but fulfilled by amazon, you can't buy them from konami. for example, SH2 is sold through amazon, new/sealed, by "Tech Supply Center."

On the other hand you can get it used from amazon: 46 used from $10.23

And Silent Hill 1 is $5.99 for download on PSN.

But yeah, if we're talking about sales of the first two keeping the series afloat... no.

[Noname6]

I don't agree.

I can't tell you how many Downpour reviews I have read where Silent Hill 2 was mentioned in nostalgic retrospect. The movie brought in fans, sure. How many new fans have you guys been flooded with since Downpour came out? More importantly, will people still be talking about Downpour like Silent Hill 2 is still discussed ten years from now? Does it have longevity? Will it still be relevant years from now? Is it a "classic?" Seriously?

Obviously, I don't see eye to eye with a lot of you, which is fine.

I wish I still had faith in the series. I would like to clarify that I don't think these games were abysmal, just undeserving of the Silent Hill name. Shattered Memories was okay, but yeah... that's all.

[what]

The first two games have such a strong reputation that the series is coasting on the reputation of those two games alone. Other than that, I have to agree that the Homecoming soundtrack is one of the best in the entire series. Too bad the game doesn't live up.

No series coasts for eight games on the strength of two.

People who hate all games after the first few do not make up the majority of the fanbase, they're just the loudest and smelliest farts in the church.

[Noname6]

The sales for the last few have been a drop in the bucket compared to the first two.

Anyway, this is the last from me on this thread. This is going nowhere.

The fact is that the series has changed and maybe I have been left behind. Well, so be it.

See you guys on the Silent Hill 2 forum.

[clips7]

I kinda see what Noname is saying...i think the series is surviving off of the "popularity" if you will of SH2. For the most part whenever someone new comes along, the first thing most folks say is "pick up SH2" or that SH2 is the benchmark for the series. That initial philosophy might lead the said individual to pick up other games or garner an interest in the other titles...

I already stated that i don't think the series should end, as it has alot of life left in it, and i think the current games will garner just enough profit for this series to continue making new entries...I personally thought Downpour was great..aside from a few issues regarding enemy design and some questionable otherworld gaming mechanics...

[jam6i]

Eries isn't coasting of the success of the first two games, in my opinion. That's a pretty low way to view the series as a whole, that the only redeeming factor are two games produced over a decade ago on old hardware systems.

Silent Hill is "coasting on SH1 and 2" just as much as Final Fantasy "coasts on FFVII": they both aren't coastng at all. Instead, saying that is taking what is regarded by the fan majority as the pinnacle of each series, and judging the remaining franchise from that height (regardless of how high or low).

The series remains afloat because people are, of I don't know, maybe....buying the games? One cannot honestly believe Konami is still throwing buckets of cash at Silent Hill if the series quit being financially viable after the first three games. If the series truly were dead, it would have already been ended.

Think logically.

[Q. Valintyne]

People who hate all games after the first few do not make up the majority of the fanbase, they're just the loudest and smelliest farts in the church.

I lol'd for a minute straight. I kid you not.

I don't agree.

I can't tell you how many Downpour reviews I have read where Silent Hill 2 was mentioned in nostalgic retrospect. The movie brought in fans, sure. How many new fans have you guys been flooded with since Downpour came out? More importantly, will people still be talking about Downpour like Silent Hill 2 is still discussed ten years from now? Does it have longevity? Will it still be relevant years from now? Is it a "classic?" Seriously?

Actually, we received quite an influx of new members here following Downpour's release.

I was one of them.

Sure, I'm a fan of the series... but the desire to talk about it didn't come until after I played Downpour (for some reason).

As for the discussion in 10 years, we'll just have to wait and see. Literally.

Isn't that how just about every other game series EVER works, though? And most of the current fans didn't come in until the movie way back in 2006. No doubt we'll get yet another wave of new fans when the second film comes out in a few months.

The movie made me want to play the original. I never got to play it before, so I ordered it offline. You can say what you will about the movie, but it did what it was intended to do: sell the brand.

What I meant to say is that the financial success of the first two games (which are the highest selling in the entire series) is what has sanctioned all of the sequels/spin offs. I'm not saying that right now the sales of SH1 or SH2 are sustaining the series...

Excluding all other factors, the sales of the first two games alone are what's sustaining the series right now.

The first two games have such a strong reputation that the series is coasting on the reputation of those two games alone.

Once again, this is silly talk. You should at least include 3 in your "success bundle" for one thing. It'd help your argument a little. Still, it's an invalid argument to have. SH4 has a strong following and fanbase as well. Even if the majority hates Homecoming, people still bought it. People bought the Climax titles as well. Why? Because they're Silent Hill games. Regardless of your opinion of what is "sustaining the series," the games continue to do what they're intended to: make money.

Although I do agree that the popularity of the first few games do help sell the others, saying that it is single-handed reason for the series' continued success is pretentious. Whether or not a sequel is produced relies solely on the success of the previous installment. That's why Saw had so many films. While Saw VII (later The Final Chapter) was being produced, plots for VIII and IX had already been written. The success of Saw VI was lackluster and the lowest grossing film of the series. The team re-evaluated Saw VII and combined the plot points of the later planned installments in The Final Chapter.

People vote with their wallets. People continue to vote for Silent Hill. As long as we pay, we'll play.

[devil hunter]

Some fans often say that new devs don't know what the series is about...how can a fan know what the series is about?

I mean, what did people who played 1 think when 2 came out and was completely different from 1? Dud they think that SH is not about that?
It's obvious that TS tried something different with each new game, well except maybe 3 because that one was a sequel to 1. Each SH game (yes, even TS ones) has a different feel to it, they have different atmosphere, scares, themes etc. You can't really compare them and say that SH is about that or that...because they're just so different.

Some people said that they see SH as an anthology series and I think that's the best way to see it. Each game gives you a new story in the fictional town called SH. Each SH game has its flaws and good stuff, not even TS games are flawless. There's nothing wrong with hating a certain game or loving a certain game.

Those are all personal opinions, because not everyone will like what the new SH game will offer. Some may like what they got in 3 scare wise, story wise, atmosphere wise, some may not, They might prefer something like in SH 4 for example.

Categorizing the games like this:

TS games
Western games

is not really good in my opinion. It's the best to look at each game individually, to see its flaws and what's good about it. If you don't like what the game has to offer, OK. There's probably some other SH game you might like more, maybe it has the stuff that better suit your tastes.

I remember that some people were surprised by the choices of other people in "Rank the series" thread. People arrange the games differently. That thread is a good example why I think that TS games vs. Western games is a really bad categorizing.

[gustavopi]

The point is that SH2 is not completely different from SH1. I read a review from here about Downpour. She end the text saying "but if you wanna real good horror game, buy SH HD to know the classics". A different release were "The Arcade". Downpour is a Silent Hill game, as I read, but couldn't be "impactful" in the new game-console as SH2. The fame of SH2 now is a shadow, and is not a good thing. I hope not to see a crazy March like this again, now I know that a few moths of delay can't be that bad after all.