Stealing from Silent Hill 2?

[Shadedarkan]

Other than the article about the creatures found next to the corpse in SH2, what is this fanaticism about Homecoming stealing so many things from SH2?
Sure, a lot of the visually appealing ideas came from the movie. They obviously incorporated some of that such as the nurses, the near cinematic sequences for monsters, Pyramid Head and his bug legion, etc. I'm having a hard time finding a bunch of stuff taken from SH2, however.
I already feel that most everyone is going to say Pyramid Head. The general consensus being that Pyramid Head is a product of James' mind and doesn't belong in any other Silent Hill. My issue here is that SH2 portrayed the Executioner, who is the basis for Pyramid Head, as a public entity.
Pyramid Head wasn't created by James' imagination. The Historical Society, and other articles, mention the Executioner and how he killed prisoners. I'll admit, the sword is probably the only part James made up. James used something that was already available and seen by unknown hundreds of people to punish himself. The Executioner is a well known entity to the people in Silent Hill.
As far as the Executioner is concerned in Homecoming, I'm fairly certain that he was Adam's construct. Adam knows quite a bit about Silent Hill and its past.
There is no reason to assume that the Pyramid Head entity was taken from SH2. If it were, it would have looked like SH2's. Another note is that the Pyramid Head in Homecoming is always followed by the bugs. This is something specific to the movie, not SH2. Last, why make a big issue of it anyway. We only see him three times in the whole game. Technically, we could say two since in the beginning we only see his sword skewer a doctor.
So then, I'm left with only the document that is seen in Homecoming from Silent Hill 2. Please, if I'm missing something here, let me know.

[devil hunter]

Well, the plot twist is kind of similar to SH 2, but I didn't really notice that much similarities.

[Augophthalmoses]

I don't see how Alex could not have triggered PH's manifestation. James didn't ever appear to have firsthand knowledge of Pyramid Head before the latter started stalking James. Nothing in the game or elsewhere ever implies James had been to the Historical Society before, had seen the painting, or heard anything about PH in general. Yet PH still appeared in James' travels throughout SH2.

So I don't see how it would be unreasonable for Alex to have do the same. It would make sense for PH to be representative of Alex's deep seeded hatred for how his father treated him. It's plausible.

[Shadedarkan]

I don't see how Alex could not have triggered PH's manifestation. James didn't ever appear to have firsthand knowledge of Pyramid Head before the latter started stalking James. Nothing in the game or elsewhere ever implies James had been to the Historical Society before, had seen the painting, or heard anything about PH in general. Yet PH still appeared in James' travels throughout SH2.

So I don't see how it would be unreasonable for Alex to have do the same. It would make sense for PH to be representative of Alex's deep seeded hatred for how his father treated him. It's plausible.

There is a line from one of the members of Team Silent on the Silent Hill Chronicle sight that hints that Pyramid Head was used because it was something James had seen on a prior trip to Silent Hill. James' and Mary's vacation to Silent Hill was confined to that singular area also. There's no reason to believe that they didn't visit the Historical Society while they were there. Mary's dialogue, during the video James made, strongly suggests that they learned something of the history and mythos of the town from somewhere. What is the more logical place for this to occur than the Historical Society?
While Alex doesn't have much love for his father or mother, he doesn't make a point to wallow in it. His actions when talking with his parents is one that reflects that he has already come to terms with the fact that they do not love him. Alex has moved beyond that while his father's dialogue lets one clearly infer that Adam constantly beat himself up about what he did to Alex. This is my reasoning for Pyramid Head/Executioner to be Adam's construct in the game.
You know, now that I think about it. It is possible that each Pyramid Head/Executioner is different each time we see him. The one in the hospital at the beginning could be Joshua's or Alex's, but the main theme is that Alex gets skewered by it in the elevator. Possible payback for accidentally killing Josh. The one in the Grand Hotel could be Carol or her husband's. Carol could be feeling guilty about cheating on her husband, or her husband wants revenge over it. The one we see kill Adam is Adam's because he feels he has to pay for his sins. But, this last part is a little off topic.

[TheCrazy]

I've written a article about the similatiries bewteen SH2 and Homecoming, (I called it Restless Homecoming).
These are the facts that I found most disturbing, regarding the inspiration that the 5th game took from the 2nd one, not only the plot but many other stuff. I'd post the whole thing here but I guess it is too big... read it here

[Shadedarkan]

I've written a article about the similatiries bewteen SH2 and Homecoming, (I called it Restless Homecoming).
These are the facts that I found most disturbing, regarding the inspiration that the 5th game took from the 2nd one, not only the plot but many other stuff. I'd post the whole thing here but I guess it is too big... read it here

You know, you find things where you look for them. I'd put some stock in what your site has to say if it weren't for all the reaching you've done. You went well overboard on things that make perfect sense. I could do a breakdown for you if you'd like.

[Q. Valintyne]

I've written a article about the similatiries bewteen SH2 and Homecoming, (I called it Restless Homecoming).
These are the facts that I found most disturbing, regarding the inspiration that the 5th game took from the 2nd one, not only the plot but many other stuff. I'd post the whole thing here but I guess it is too big... read it here

You know, you find things where you look for them.

No shit. That's the entire point of the article. It's not polite to discredit someone's interpretation of a story. What you think isn't fact, either.

I thought it was a great read and it brought up a lot of similarities I never thought of before.

@TheCrazy; you really have a knack for writing.

[NarooN]

I'd just like to note that the plot twist that everyone seems to love from SH2 wasn't even original when that game came out. It was done to death in various other TV shows and films well before that game even came out.

I also don't really agree with the whole Elle thing. The only similarity there is that it's a female character who follows you around for a short time. Maria was clearly an antagonist, and she

REVEAL SPOILER

got obliterated multiple times as well as appearing resurrected out of the blue at times.

Elle did no such thing. It's obvious that the two had a past together, but it was nothing like James x Maria (Mary). Elle was just a normal person, and she was a protagonist as well.

[TheCrazy]

I totally understand that you don't agree with me, different visions/opinions are what make things great and rich.

When you refere that the SH2 plot wasn't original and you talk about "various other tv shows and films well before that game even came out" - I understand that, actually I don't really believe that something is 100% original, the final result of a creation is always based in things that inspired us, and somehow already exist. However, I was making a comparison between SH2 and Homecoming, so you might understand that I'm not really focused on those other "tv shows and films", to be honest I don't even need to be.

About Elle, it's based on my interpretation of what I thought while experiencing the game. For me, She totally resembles Maria's role - notice the moment when they got separated in the sewers? Or the moment when we meet again, outised Alex's house, even the dialog matches. Note that Iam not saying that Elle is a copy of Maria - not at all...

With what I've wrote, I'm not judging the game - I enjoyed it alot actually, however there are strong referenced to the 2nd game and that's a fact. If the 2nd game wasn't original, that's other kind of stuff that would bring more doubts than actual answers, I keep my opinion and my thoughts about how Homecoming took many (not to say "too many") aspects from Silent Hill 2.

[NarooN]

I'm not really denying that Homecoming took some inspirations from SH2. In fact, before that game came out, a lot of fans were worshiping Sh2 (as is normal in the fanbase lol) so I guess the devs decided to incorporate a lot of throwbacks to SH2 as a result. Instead of the "wow, that's cool" reactions, rather, they were criticized and bashed for it, though I'm sure the people who bashed it for that were the same people that we all know about, the kind who declare SH dead every time a new game gets announced .

Your article was nice though, you noticed a lot of things I didn't on the few playthroughs I did of HC.

[JaneTheNurse]

As I just posted in another thread...
Developers and players always cite SH2 as a great game. They try to make throwbacks to that game in both plot and easter eggs. Why? Because everyone's obsessed with SH2. I rarely see any negative criticism of it. It's very beloved and was made very well.
None of this is surprising. There's similarities between SH2 and Homecoming, yes, and that's what a lot of people ended up hating about it. "Oh, the plot is stolen from 2. It's the same story as 2."
Barely worth talking about. Of course it's like 2. Everyone loves 2. Everyone wants more of 2. No one seems to get that 2 was a game that did well because everything worked together. The music, the characters, the storyline, the enemies... Nothing can be taken out while expecting it to still work properly. It all has to be there to be the great game it is.
So let's quit mooning over that old flame of ours and demand stories and characters and plots and items and enemies and puzzles and music that are at the same level of quality as our collective favorite game 4ever.

[TheCrazy]

I'm not really denying that Homecoming took some inspirations from SH2. In fact, before that game came out, a lot of fans were worshiping Sh2 (as is normal in the fanbase lol) so I guess the devs decided to incorporate a lot of throwbacks to SH2 as a result. Instead of the "wow, that's cool" reactions, rather, they were criticized and bashed for it, though I'm sure the people who bashed it for that were the same people that we all know about, the kind who declare SH dead every time a new game gets announced .

Your article was nice though, you noticed a lot of things I didn't on the few playthroughs I did of HC.

I agree with you when you refere the reactions from the fans. Personally the changes don't tend to bother me, I think that they are essential to make something grow, and that's what is happening in Silent Hill, some games are better then others but each one has unique stuff that makes the series what it is today. I both liked and disliked Homecoming, cannot say that it was my favorite game (probably because I was expecting a little more) but I also enjoyed many things that worked very well! Again, by writing that article I'm not judging the game, I guess that some of those inspirations are quite nice, specially for those who liked the 2nd game (almost everyone), who's the people that doesn't like to find some easter eggs through a game?? Just wanted it to be a bit more original...

[Shadedarkan]

Let's be clear before I begin. I am not trying to say that TheCrazy is not allowed his opinion. But, he posted his evidence supporting his view and as such invited it to be critiqued. I'm certain TheCrazy understood what I meant with my reply to his post.
I also feel that I should point at a few things seen as SH6 taking from SH2 that most likely are more of coincidence or in homage. Some of these things can be under-interpreted without certain real life information or experience with military organizations.

REVEAL SPOILER

• Dead relatives: There are the two similarities in the plot. The first that each protagonist has a dead relative that each has a reason to believe is still alive. The second is that both find out that relative is dead at roughly the same point in the game's timeline. These do not make the plot of SH6 the copy of SH2. James killed his wife then chose a reality where his wife died toward the beginning of her disease from her disease. Alex did not kill Josh, but could not accept what happened and began his delusion of being a soldier in his effort to save Josh. It is interesting to note that Alex's delusion incorporates his real life environment. Alex was sent to a mental treatment hospital the night of Josh's death. In Alex's delusion he was a soldier that was wounded and spent time in a hospital recovering. We aren't told exactly what the wound was, but given certain information we can seemingly infer that he was suffering from PTSD. Alex's mental breakdown over Josh's death caused a delusion in which Alex suffers a mental breakdown from war.
• Ambiance and Atmosphere: I don't see the 'strong inspirations' from the movie regarding this. The main ideas taken from the movie are the styles of the nurses and smogs and the transition effect to the Otherworld. The transition effect is only focused on the first two times to the Otherworld then takes a backseat to the story.
• The companion: So Maria, Eileen and Elle are the only interactive companions so far. Maria does die on three occasions and on one she is simply not there. I'd hardly consider a Siam overturning the stationary vehicle Elle is in as an almost death. Elle simply comes up missing in the sewers, this cannot be considered her almost dying as this is us being led to assume she is dead. The only time Elle can be considered to have almost died is while Curtis has control over her. Maria and Elle have completely separate personalities and relations to the protagonist. Elle and Alex grew up together and the game insinuates that their feelings for each other go beyond friendship. This is why Alex reacts to her being in danger the way he does. James continually confuses Maria with Mary, even though the clothes and hair are off, but shows a complete lack of concern for Maria time and time again except when she about to be killed. Completely separate dynamics at work.
• Meeting for the first time: Elle is the only companion distracted with something when the protagonist arrives on the scene. Maria's demeanor is one biding their time while they wait for something. Maria was at Rosewater Park for the sole purpose of meeting James. I don't understand how you see Elle and Alex's meeting as being similar to Maria's and James'. Other than Elle and Maria both turning from the protagonist and walking a few steps away before turning back the scenes are completely different.
• "Companion, I thought you were...": James and Alex both use a generic character reaction when they meet their companion again after thinking they had died. It's a standard reaction used in many movies and games. Unfortunately, because of its overuse it has become the first thing that comes to mind for writers when writing such a scene and they don't even realize it. They've heard it so much it seems perfectly natural.
• Siam: To be honest, this creature mimics the relationship between Adam and Lillian. If you aren't familiar with marriages where one of the individuals are a member of the military you might not see this connection. Lillian's love for Adam and her choice to marry him bound her to him. She stayed with him through all the moves, all the deployments, never showing her weak side, even when it came time to sacrifice one of their sons. Adam is the dominant individual in the relationship and Lillian is forced to go where he goes. The PS version does not have trophies, but I'd imagine the name is a tribute to how James and Mary's relationship resemble Adam and Lillian's.
• The cages of Hell's Decent: The cages that do have an object in them is a corpse, fully contained, inside of a body bag which do not resemble the flesh lip monsters from SH2. The cage isn't really even similar. In SH2 these resemble metal frames while SH6 they are clearly cages. Also, the metal frame with a corpse in it is a recurring them as it shows up in SH1 and SH3.
• The smog: Modeled after the movie monster, just like the nurse, and since the movie modeled it after the lying figure from SH2 you see the resemblance. The smog's movements are identical to the movie monster's.
• Dogs, we love to hate 'em: The fact that SH2 had could have supported the inclusion of a dog monster but chose not to and how SH6 can't support the inclusion of a dog monster but chose to is more of a farce. The PS version doesn't have trophies so I'm fairly positive that the name is an honor to SH2.
• Protagonist fashion: James is sporting a Vietnam era, olive drab, jungle blouse. A popular jacket during the 80s declining into the 90s until 9/11 breathed life back into it. Easily obtainable at any military surplus type store. The American flag decoration was sewn on by a civilian lacking in military regulation knowledge. Alex's jacket is a War on Terror era, desert tan, gore-tex blouse. This blouse is not easily obtainable at military surplus stores as it is still in active use by the military (knock-offs don't count). The American flag decoration appearing on Alex's jacket is there per Army regulation 670-1 "...the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that the star field faces forward..." Alex's jacket specifically supports his character background.
• Jeans and boots: I just want to say, "Really?" Every protagonist in the series so far wears jeans and only Henry doesn't wear boots.
• The sporting of the flashlight: Just need to point out that every protagonist so far who has a flashlight wears it in their left breast pocket.

[TheCrazy]

I see how you just don't agree with anything that I've written, anything at all. I'm not complaining and I understand it prefectly, it is natural to have different opinions about stuff, it's actually healthy. However, I must say again that I wrote everything based on my experience, with the main goal of sharing it with whoever whats to read it. I found these similarities and I still believe them. Your explanation seems plausible enough as well, in your opinion Homecoming is perfectly original and doesn't have nothing to do with SH2.

[Q. Valintyne]

Heather wore a skirt.

[Shadedarkan]

Heather wore a skirt.

She wore a jean skirt, it still counts at least halfway. The females of the forum may be able to tell if her skirt is actually made of a different material than denim. But, the stitching used, the fact that there is a fly in the crotch area and the texture point to a jean skirt.

[Q. Valintyne]

The sporting of the flashlight: Just need to point out that every protagonist so far who has a flashlight wears it in their left breast pocket.

Murphy's isn't.

[Shadedarkan]

The sporting of the flashlight: Just need to point out that every protagonist so far who has a flashlight wears it in their left breast pocket.

Murphy's isn't.

I was referring to every protagonist up to the point of SH6 being made. At this point, I'd say Downpour purposefully did things to be different just so people couldn't draw these ridiculous parallels.

[JaneTheNurse]

At this point, I'd say Downpour purposefully did things to be different just so people couldn't draw these ridiculous parallels.

They will anyways. And yep, that's a denim skirt Heather is wearing. Other fabrics just don't look like that.

[Paul Scheible]

I've written a article about the similatiries bewteen SH2 and Homecoming, (I called it Restless Homecoming).
These are the facts that I found most disturbing, regarding the inspiration that the 5th game took from the 2nd one, not only the plot but many other stuff. I'd post the whole thing here but I guess it is too big... read it here

You seriously found it disturbing that James and Alex wear similar jackets?