Pieramid_Head

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:52 pm

When I think of Homecoming, I think of a game that is bad at best, with really trashy combat bringing down an already pretty horrible game, easily the worst in the series.

When I think of Downpour, I think about how Downpour was a pretty meh game in general, with too much of a convoluted story and an only okay Soundtrack. But overall, not horrible.

I haven't played Shattered Memories, so, when I think of it, I think of how I haven't played it.

But when I think of Origins, I think of missed opportunity.
I believe of all the Post Team-Silent SH games, Origins is the best. There are just a few things that I believe bring it down, and make it an only "great" game instead of an "amazing" game.

First off, the power to transition between the regular world and other world at your own volition. This is probably the biggest problem I have with this game, just because it makes absolutely no sense within the Silent Hill universe.

Second, the story. The actual story of Travis is, fine. I don't really have any gripes with it. It's kind of boring, and it pales in comparison to any of the stories in Silent Hills 1-4, but it's not disgustingly bad, and I think it's okay. But I HATE the liberties the developers took with Lisa's character. Kaufmann was alright, but Lisa was HORRIBLE. I'm not going to go into further detail, because if you've played the game you know exactly what I'm talking about, but I honestly just can't stand the liberties they took with Lisa's personality.

And that "Butcher" monster, thing. I don't hate the Butcher, but I just wish that they had been a little bit more creative, instead of creating a less-horny, less-creepy Pyramid Head.

But Origins has a lot going for it. The area design is nice, the monster design is just fine, and the atmosphere isn't that bad either. Now, keep in mind, I don't hate Origins because of the reasons I've listed, I just think that the game could have been a lot better without the "butchering" (Oh yes, I went there) of Lisa's character, the traveling to the Otherworld at your own volition, and the uncreative antagonist.

I completely forgot to add that I hate the breakable weapons... But I'm sure I don't have to go into detail as to why I hate that feature.

I can't help but feel like I didn't give the game enough praise in this post. I really like Origins. I enjoyed it thoroughly, and plan to play it again, and soon.
Last edited by Pieramid_Head on Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:19 pm.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

devil hunter

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by devil hunter on Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:10 pm

Ehh, I think all SH games are pretty convoluted, they have to be like that in order to work. SH2 is full of big coincidences etc. plot is convoluted in order for themes and symbolism to work.

Btw. Tomm is a member here, so, no matter what you think of the games he was involved in (and keep in mind, he wasn't the only one who worked on them) you can't write personal attacks to him (and besides, he just worked on a game, he isn't a mass murderer, so he doesn't deserve to be called names).
 
 
 
 
 
 

Pieramid_Head

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:14 pm

Actually, you're right. What I said wasn't a personal attack, but reading over it I feel like what I said about Tomm was more than a tad too harsh, because even though I feel personally like he made a lot of questionable decisions, what I said was un-called for.
Thanks for pointing it out.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

Pieramid_Head

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:17 pm

Oh, and about Downpour, I agree that all of the SH games have pretty convoluted stories (excluding 1 and 3 for the most part) I just don't like Downpour's story... It was a little bit, too convoluted in my opinion.
REVEAL SPOILER
Especially the endings.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

Rodox_Head

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Rodox_Head on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:32 pm

I feel like I wasted my time analyzing 0rigins, since it seems that no one really cares for it any more than before I did. People still have a boner for 2 I guess.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:11 am

I genuinely liked Origins, mainly because I liked Travis' character. He had his own personal problems but was more than willing to aid Alessa (despite how tough she was on him). I liked him from the moment he showed so much concern for Alessa and her being immolated.

The complexity of his character is very subtle and can be easily overlooked (as I found out in my first playthrough :P ), but I think they did a good job with him. I just wish they gave him a more peaceful resolution because it seems like he never came to harmony with himself and his past deeds as it is implied in SH HC he is frequenting Silent Hill again (and perhaps its otherworld).

He deserved a better ending than that.

I didn't mind his ability to transition between worlds at his own will. I just accepted that since Alessa was largely in control or responsible for the otherworlds and the supernatural forces in play at this point in time, she granted this ability to Travis for him to serve out his role (in accordance with her plan).

But I didn't like the breakable weapons either. I think that could have been done better.

It was a good game. At least there weren't any major "faults" like there were in HC and Downpour (respectively gameplay style and technical issues, though I didn't mind HC's gameplay honestly. I thought the combat in HC was fun and easy).
 
 
 
 
 

Pieramid_Head

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:29 am

Yeah, even though Travis' character isn't the most fleshed out and complex, he's still miles ahead of Alex and Murphy, and Travis does have quite a bit of hidden depth that most don't realize.

Hmm, now that you say it, I can kind of understand how it would make sense that Travis would be able to travel between the two worlds.. But I still think it subtracts from the horror of realizing that the world is literally decaying before your eyes as the world transitions to the Otherworld.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:21 am

Pieramid_Head wrote:
Hmm, now that you say it, I can kind of understand how it would make sense that Travis would be able to travel between the two worlds.. But I still think it subtracts from the horror of realizing that the world is literally decaying before your eyes as the world transitions to the Otherworld.


That's true. I feel like Murphy had the best reaction to the transitions. His voice always seemed full of despair when it happened.
 
 
 
 
 

Pieramid_Head

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:52 am

Haha yeah, I'm partial to Harry's reactions though, just because of how cheesy they are.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

Salah Talih

This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Salah Talih on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:30 am

Hi there! You're a new member, (Just like me) and you're being a lot active. You're a promising member!

You know, I agree with half of what you've said, and disagree with the other half. This game is... I don't know... special! It's my favorite and I like it more than any other SH game I've played. Lisa's design was... meh, and if the game takes place BEFORE Silent Hill 1, then they should have made Lisa younger than the one from SH1. The SH1 Lisa was a lot hotter... A LOT! Now, for the Butcher thing, it was really okay to me, it's not really a less horny version of PH, it is a stand-alone mind creation of Travis's personality. The breakable weapons were... meh... you know. (A breakable KATANA?! SERIOUSLY?!)

But, I love your look at the game, you're almost me! (Just almost)

Good luck playing, and just a little advice: Explore everywhere. ;)
 
 
 
 
 
 

Pieramid_Head

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:43 am

Salah Talih wrote:Hi there! You're a new member, (Just like me) and you're being a lot active. You're a promising member!

You know, I agree with half of what you've said, and disagree with the other half. This game is... I don't know... special! It's my favorite and I like it more than any other SH game I've played. Lisa's design was... meh, and if the game takes place BEFORE Silent Hill 1, then they should have made Lisa younger than the one from SH1. The SH1 Lisa was a lot hotter... A LOT! Now, for the Butcher thing, it was really okay to me, it's not really a less horny version of PH, it is a stand-alone mind creation of Travis's personality. The breakable weapons were... meh... you know. (A breakable KATANA?! SERIOUSLY?!)

But, I love your look at the game, you're almost me! (Just almost)

Good luck playing, and just a little advice: Explore everywhere. ;)


Haha thanks for the advice. Yeah, I agree, Lisa looked younger in Silent Hill 1 then she did in SH:O.

About the Butcher thing, I get that he's supposed to be a creation from Travis' sub-conscious, but I just think that the developers could have been more creative, it just feels to me that the Butcher is quite similar (at least in design) to Pyramid Head. Both are large burly males with metal heads, both wield a very large weapon, both wear bloodstained gowns, and both are encountered for the first time torturing a minor monster (well, technically PH is first encountered in that Apartments hallway, but the first time you get real face-to-face with him he is raping/killing those mannequins.)
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by devil hunter on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:46 am

I don't know, I thought Murphy was a pretty complex character.

About Otherworld transitions, well, I think that creates a different kind of fear. Sure, it's scary when something happens beyond your control, but think of it like this:

You're in a scary place, you can go into an even scarier place, you don't want to do that, there's nothing else you can do though so you have no choice to do it. But still, do you want to?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:51 am

Pieramid_Head wrote:
Salah Talih wrote:Hi there! You're a new member, (Just like me) and you're being a lot active. You're a promising member!

You know, I agree with half of what you've said, and disagree with the other half. This game is... I don't know... special! It's my favorite and I like it more than any other SH game I've played. Lisa's design was... meh, and if the game takes place BEFORE Silent Hill 1, then they should have made Lisa younger than the one from SH1. The SH1 Lisa was a lot hotter... A LOT! Now, for the Butcher thing, it was really okay to me, it's not really a less horny version of PH, it is a stand-alone mind creation of Travis's personality. The breakable weapons were... meh... you know. (A breakable KATANA?! SERIOUSLY?!)

But, I love your look at the game, you're almost me! (Just almost)

Good luck playing, and just a little advice: Explore everywhere. ;)


Haha thanks for the advice. Yeah, I agree, Lisa looked younger in Silent Hill 1 then she did in SH:O.

About the Butcher thing, I get that he's supposed to be a creation from Travis' sub-conscious, but I just think that the developers could have been more creative, it just feels to me that the Butcher is quite similar (at least in design) to Pyramid Head. Both are large burly males with metal heads, both wield a very large weapon, both wear bloodstained gowns, and both are encountered for the first time torturing a minor monster (well, technically PH is first encountered in that Apartments hallway, but the first time you get real face-to-face with him he is raping/killing those mannequins.)


I think the reason why they are similar is because PH, Butcher, Bogeyman, etc all root from the executioner or punisher, an entity entailed within the order's lore whose role was to punish sinners.

Since the town became imbued with supernatural forces it seems that a sinner's personal punisher never deviates too far from that core creature, or so I suspect.

I maybe completely off but this is just a hunch.

And just as Salah Talih write definitely explore everywhere lol. The game is packed to the brim with interesting memos, puzzles, etc.
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:52 am

devil hunter wrote:I don't know, I thought Murphy was a pretty complex character.

About Otherworld transitions, well, I think that creates a different kind of fear. Sure, it's scary when something happens beyond your control, but think of it like this:

You're in a scary place, you can go into an even scarier place, you don't want to do that, there's nothing else you can do though so you have no choice to do it. But still, do you want to?


Murphy was pretty complex. I liked his character as a whole save for how he was presented in the execution ending.
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:07 am

devil hunter wrote:I don't know, I thought Murphy was a pretty complex character.

About Otherworld transitions, well, I think that creates a different kind of fear. Sure, it's scary when something happens beyond your control, but think of it like this:

You're in a scary place, you can go into an even scarier place, you don't want to do that, there's nothing else you can do though so you have no choice to do it. But still, do you want to?


Murphy was a decent character, but I just hate how depending on what ending you get in Downpour, it completely changes the nature of who Murphy is/what Murphy did.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:09 am

Silenthill4life wrote:
Pieramid_Head wrote:
Salah Talih wrote:Hi there! You're a new member, (Just like me) and you're being a lot active. You're a promising member!

You know, I agree with half of what you've said, and disagree with the other half. This game is... I don't know... special! It's my favorite and I like it more than any other SH game I've played. Lisa's design was... meh, and if the game takes place BEFORE Silent Hill 1, then they should have made Lisa younger than the one from SH1. The SH1 Lisa was a lot hotter... A LOT! Now, for the Butcher thing, it was really okay to me, it's not really a less horny version of PH, it is a stand-alone mind creation of Travis's personality. The breakable weapons were... meh... you know. (A breakable KATANA?! SERIOUSLY?!)

But, I love your look at the game, you're almost me! (Just almost)

Good luck playing, and just a little advice: Explore everywhere. ;)


Haha thanks for the advice. Yeah, I agree, Lisa looked younger in Silent Hill 1 then she did in SH:O.

About the Butcher thing, I get that he's supposed to be a creation from Travis' sub-conscious, but I just think that the developers could have been more creative, it just feels to me that the Butcher is quite similar (at least in design) to Pyramid Head. Both are large burly males with metal heads, both wield a very large weapon, both wear bloodstained gowns, and both are encountered for the first time torturing a minor monster (well, technically PH is first encountered in that Apartments hallway, but the first time you get real face-to-face with him he is raping/killing those mannequins.)


I think the reason why they are similar is because PH, Butcher, Bogeyman, etc all root from the executioner or punisher, an entity entailed within the order's lore whose role was to punish sinners.

Since the town became imbued with supernatural forces it seems that a sinner's personal punisher never deviates too far from that core creature, or so I suspect.

I maybe completely off but this is just a hunch.

And just as Salah Talih write definitely explore everywhere lol. The game is packed to the brim with interesting memos, puzzles, etc.


Yeah, but I just don't see why they have to look so damn similar. At least the Bogeyman looked a little bit unique, y'know? Trench coat, gas mask, huge hammer? That's way different than Pyramid-head, butcher gown, and giant sword/spear. But when you compare the Origins Butcher to Pyramid-head, they're almost damn-identical save for the geometry of their heads.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by devil hunter on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:13 am

Pieramid_Head wrote:Murphy was a decent character, but I just hate how depending on what ending you get in Downpour, it completely changes the nature of who Murphy is/what Murphy did.


Well, the only ending that changes who Murphy is is the Execution one, the others are consistent with what we know about him.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:22 am

devil hunter wrote:
Pieramid_Head wrote:Murphy was a decent character, but I just hate how depending on what ending you get in Downpour, it completely changes the nature of who Murphy is/what Murphy did.


Well, the only ending that changes who Murphy is is the Execution one, the others are consistent with what we know about him.


Well there's the one ending where Murphy didn't kill Napier, and the Execution one like you said, I just believe personally that endings should just change what happens in the END, not what happened in the beginning. But I'm not really talking from experience... I only played the game once.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:57 am

Pieramid_Head wrote:
devil hunter wrote:
Pieramid_Head wrote:Murphy was a decent character, but I just hate how depending on what ending you get in Downpour, it completely changes the nature of who Murphy is/what Murphy did.


Well, the only ending that changes who Murphy is is the Execution one, the others are consistent with what we know about him.


Well there's the one ending where Murphy didn't kill Napier, and the Execution one like you said, I just believe personally that endings should just change what happens in the END, not what happened in the beginning. But I'm not really talking from experience... I only played the game once.


I think Murphy was supposed to not have killed Napier in both truth and justice ending and the forgiveness ending because:
REVEAL SPOILER
the 4th issue of Anne's comics, it is mentioned Murphy didn't kill Napier and Anne's comics makes it known that the truth and justice ending was the canonical ending.


Pieramid_Head wrote:
Silenthill4life wrote:
Pieramid_Head wrote:
About the Butcher thing, I get that he's supposed to be a creation from Travis' sub-conscious, but I just think that the developers could have been more creative, it just feels to me that the Butcher is quite similar (at least in design) to Pyramid Head. Both are large burly males with metal heads, both wield a very large weapon, both wear bloodstained gowns, and both are encountered for the first time torturing a minor monster (well, technically PH is first encountered in that Apartments hallway, but the first time you get real face-to-face with him he is raping/killing those mannequins.)


I think the reason why they are similar is because PH, Butcher, Bogeyman, etc all root from the executioner or punisher, an entity entailed within the order's lore whose role was to punish sinners.

Since the town became imbued with supernatural forces it seems that a sinner's personal punisher never deviates too far from that core creature, or so I suspect.

I maybe completely off but this is just a hunch.

And just as Salah Talih write definitely explore everywhere lol. The game is packed to the brim with interesting memos, puzzles, etc.


Yeah, but I just don't see why they have to look so damn similar. At least the Bogeyman looked a little bit unique, y'know? Trench coat, gas mask, huge hammer? That's way different than Pyramid-head, butcher gown, and giant sword/spear. But when you compare the Origins Butcher to Pyramid-head, they're almost damn-identical save for the geometry of their heads.


That's true. Bogeyman is definitely more unique than the other 3, but I think the butcher's design suited Travis because the butcher was indeed just that: a monstrous, demonic butcher and it is implied that Travis was a ruthless serial killer...so it seems like the design fitted Travis well, but I guess it comes down to preference.

I'm not personally averse to the butcher's design because I think it was well used in the end.
 
 
 
 
 

Salah Talih

This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Salah Talih on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:14 am

Pyramids are a symbol of sex, since they are triangle-like, 3 corners, 3 letters, S, E, and X. (That explains James's sexuality)

Travis cares less about sex, that's why the monster he sees doesn't wear a Pyramid on his head.

So my final conclusion is that the Butcher IS Pyramid Head, but every sinner sees his/her monster in a way.

I don't know for Bogeyman, since I've never played HC.
 
 
 
 
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