Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:22 am

Salah Talih wrote:

So my final conclusion is that the Butcher IS Pyramid Head, but every sinner sees his/her monster in a way.



I think that is right. Butcher and Pyramid Head are just different manifestations of the executioner or punisher from the order's lore.

But Travis does seem to be interested in sex, although it seems his sexual desire is much more repressed. The game has sexy nurses and the two-back monster seems to have sexual symbolism too.
Also the butcher slices through the reproductive organs of its victims. This could be interpreted as sexual frustration or Travis' spite towards fertility as he did have a troubled, unaffectionate childhood.
 
 
 
 
 

Salah Talih

This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Salah Talih on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:33 am

Silenthill4life wrote:
Salah Talih wrote:

So my final conclusion is that the Butcher IS Pyramid Head, but every sinner sees his/her monster in a way.



I think that is right. Butcher and Pyramid Head are just different manifestations of the executioner or punisher from the order's lore.

But Travis does seem to be interested in sex, although it seems his sexual desire is much more repressed. The game has sexy nurses and the two-back monster seems to have sexual symbolism too.
Also the butcher slices through the reproductive organs of its victims. This could be interpreted as sexual frustration or Travis' spite towards fertility as he did have a troubled, unaffectionate childhood.


Good catches, but you forgot Lisa in the theatre, when she was showing Travis her 'acting interests'. Travis looked horny and ready for sex, but when Lisa asked him what does he think, he changed his mind. :lol:
 
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:36 am

Salah Talih wrote:
Silenthill4life wrote:
Salah Talih wrote:

So my final conclusion is that the Butcher IS Pyramid Head, but every sinner sees his/her monster in a way.



I think that is right. Butcher and Pyramid Head are just different manifestations of the executioner or punisher from the order's lore.

But Travis does seem to be interested in sex, although it seems his sexual desire is much more repressed. The game has sexy nurses and the two-back monster seems to have sexual symbolism too.
Also the butcher slices through the reproductive organs of its victims. This could be interpreted as sexual frustration or Travis' spite towards fertility as he did have a troubled, unaffectionate childhood.


Good catches, but you forgot Lisa in the theatre, when she was showing Travis her 'acting interests'. Travis looked horny and ready for sex, but when Lisa asked him what does he think, he changed his mind. :lol:


I think Lisa was just leading him on and teasing him with how versatile she was in acting out different roles. Also the hotel scene when Travis walks in on Lisa and Kaufmann finishing up. He seemed kind of dejected :?
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:32 pm

Salah Talih wrote:Pyramids are a symbol of sex, since they are triangle-like, 3 corners, 3 letters, S, E, and X. (That explains James's sexuality)

Travis cares less about sex, that's why the monster he sees doesn't wear a Pyramid on his head.

So my final conclusion is that the Butcher IS Pyramid Head, but every sinner sees his/her monster in a way.

I don't know for Bogeyman, since I've never played HC.


I wouldn't necessarily agree with the Butcher being Pyramid Head, but I do think that you're right that they're both kind of reminiscent of Executioners because the town has a history of executions.

Something interesting that I read about was about the similarities between the Mandarins (from Silent Hill 2) and the Closers (Silent Hill 3). Ito was quoted saying that he made them look similar because the monsters in Silent Hill aren't COMPLETELY based on the person, the town also has some influence in what they look like. I'll see if I can find a link.

http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Mandarin Found it! :)

Even though I still think the design for the Butcher could have been more original, I think you're right, that both the Butcher and Pyramid Head are kind of Executioner-like because of the town's history of Executioners.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Rodox_Head on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:33 pm

Butcher is NOT Pyramid Head. It is a manifestation of Travis' other life. I've covered this before.

REVEAL SPOILER
HoneyandtheBear wrote:
The duality in Travis's nature manifests itself in the form of the Butcher. While Pyramid Head was manifested from James's emotional state, the Butcher is based on Travis himself. In fact, it's possible that Travis may have been the butcher in real life according to a memo found in the theater.

"Since what happened to Tony, I've
dreamt about HIM more and more!
THE BUTCHER!

He looks just like that monster, the
executioner!

Now I've seen him when I'm
awake. He's at my motel! It's HIM, I
swear it!"


Given the connections between Travis and the motel, he may have been a known serial killer in the area referred to as only "The Butcher".

While the butcher only appears twice throughout the game, the differences in each encounter are quite apparent. In the first, Travis is in plain sight as he witnesses him effortlessly kill a nurse in cold blood and walk away. While in the second, he shows more pleasure in his actions. He slowly slices down a Two-Back, followed by furiously thrusting the cleaver through its body repeatedly before turning his attention towards Travis. So why did he ignore Travis in the first and try to kill him in the next? Since the Butcher is a manifestation of the malevolent side of Travis that he is unable to see, the Butcher is no personal threat to him, as he has no idea that it's the monstrous side of him. While in the second, the barriers between both sides are breaking and he is somewhat aware of his connection to him, and is therefore a threat to his good side. Upon defeat, Travis picks up the cleaver and ultimately rejects it by furiously shoving it into the butcher's corpse.


Butcher hastily killing the nurse out of anger.


Butcher slowly preparing to kill a Two-Back with extreme pleasure.

One small, but interesting, detail I noticed about the butcher's design that I'd like to point out is that he lacks ears, eyes, nostrils, and a mouth. He is a "senseless" killer.
Image

The Butcher may also manifest from Travis's anger towards his parents. His victims are a feminine nurse and the overtly sexual Two-Back. When he kills the nurse, he impales the abdomen and slices downward which would destroy both the uterus and vagina LOL, and when he kills the two-back, he slices the "giving" end of the monster before impaling both "giving" and "receiving" ends. This is likely based on how Travis's monstrous side views Richard and Helen as unfit parents, and his punishment is removing their reproductive organs.

The motel shows signs of Travis's murders with the photos scattered throughout and an entire area blocked off by police tape. In one of the rooms there is both a wedding gown and tuxedo laid on the bed, this is likely connected to the "Cause of death: Shotgun" photo, given the term "shotgun wedding". This may show that Travis had both an attachment and distaste for women, and given the voice heard in the bad ending, especially ones that particularly remind him of his mother. The "Snakebite" and "Overdose" photos are likely connected and the former is just a reference to Cleopatra's death via snake venom (it is found in the Cleopatra suite). In the bad ending, images of drugs and injections flash, hinting that this was one of his murder methods and the mark left by the needle resembled a snake bite. Following the voice claiming to not be Travis's mother, we hear a cutting sound. She was likely the woman in the "cause of death: Stabbing" photo. The biggest connection between the motel and Travis's murderous side is if you look through a peephole in the maintenance room, we can see the butcher in the room covered wall-to-wall with photographs, and in the bad ending we see Travis falling to his knees in a bedroom looking at his blood-covered hands while his face changes between his and the butchers.

The Bogeyman may be more of a rip-off of the Butcher than Pyramid Head. :P
Image
"Well I like to know what I'm doing when I do it, and I do what I'm doing 'cause I don't know what to do when I'm not doing it"
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:10 am

HoneyandtheBear wrote:Butcher is NOT Pyramid Head. It is a manifestation of Travis' other life. I've covered this before.



I agree

I was just saying that the butcher, PH and the bogeyman are all different manifestations of the same entity: the executioner or punisher, detailed in the order's lore.

The intrinsic differences between the 3 is a consequence of the different darkness, past and sub-conscious of their respective sources (i.e. butcher is for travis as PH is for James).
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:41 am

Wow, that's a really great analysis Honeyandthebear, and I agree with it completely. I never really came to the conclusion that Travis was a serial killer, and now, reading your post, I think he was. I don't think that the Butcher and PH are the same entity, but I think the reason why they are sort of executioner-like is because of the town's history of executioners, since the town does have influence in the design of the monsters, and it's not ALL the psyche of the person in the town.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:12 am

Pieramid_Head wrote:Wow, that's a really great analysis Honeyandthebear, and I agree with it completely. I never really came to the conclusion that Travis was a serial killer, and now, reading your post, I think he was. I don't think that the Butcher and PH are the same entity, but I think the reason why they are sort of executioner-like is because of the town's history of executioners, since the town does have influence in the design of the monsters, and it's not ALL the psyche of the person in the town.


This is a good post
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:40 am

Why thank you sir, I appreciate it. The discussion in this post has kind of subsided some of the negativity I felt about the Butcher, now that I know that he kind of has a reason to be there, and he's not just Pyramid-Head rip-off fan-service. I still stand by what I said, and I think he could looked a tad more unique, but I don't think as negatively of him as I once did.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:44 am

Pieramid_Head wrote:Why thank you sir, I appreciate it. The discussion in this post has kind of subsided some of the negativity I felt about the Butcher, now that I know that he kind of has a reason to be there, and he's not just Pyramid-Head rip-off fan-service. I still stand by what I said, and I think he could looked a tad more unique, but I don't think as negatively of him as I once did.


Yeah when I first played Origins I was confused as to the significance of the butcher. I was wondering in what obscure way could Travis be affiliated with this creature, not knowing it was subliminally detailed in-game that Travis had a possible past as a serial killer.

Once I put two and two together I appreciated this character a lot more.

It's what HoneyandtheBear has known all along: that this really was a very detailed and well-done game.
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Rodox_Head on Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:30 am

I'm humbled to see someone actually altering their opinion of the game because of my analysis.
Image
"Well I like to know what I'm doing when I do it, and I do what I'm doing 'cause I don't know what to do when I'm not doing it"
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:46 am

HoneyandtheBear wrote:I'm humbled to see someone actually altering their opinion of the game because of my analysis.


It was good stuff dude!
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Pieramid_Head on Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:13 am

HoneyandtheBear wrote:I'm humbled to see someone actually altering their opinion of the game because of my analysis.

Of course man, it was a very very solid analysis.
There was a PIE here.
It's PYRAMID now.
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Rodox_Head on Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:00 am

Pieramid_Head wrote:
HoneyandtheBear wrote:I'm humbled to see someone actually altering their opinion of the game because of my analysis.

Of course man, it was a very very solid analysis.


Thanks, I encourage you to check out my other findings, and let me know what you think.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=436993
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=436993
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=436779
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=436792

Oh, and thanks SH4L for backing me as well. I appreciate the encouragement.
Image
"Well I like to know what I'm doing when I do it, and I do what I'm doing 'cause I don't know what to do when I'm not doing it"
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:33 am

HoneyandtheBear wrote:
Pieramid_Head wrote:
HoneyandtheBear wrote:I'm humbled to see someone actually altering their opinion of the game because of my analysis.

Of course man, it was a very very solid analysis.


Thanks, I encourage you to check out my other findings, and let me know what you think.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=436993
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=436993
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=436779
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=436792

Oh, and thanks SH4L for backing me as well. I appreciate the encouragement.


Any day dude
You give credit where credit is due and your stuff definitely deserves to be praised. :)
 
 
 
 
 

Salah Talih

This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Salah Talih on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:06 pm

Excuse my wrong thoughts. That analysis did prove something, you being right, and you being a solid fan!
 
 
 
 
 
 

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This Game Was a Missed Opportunity (In My Opinion)

Post by Otherworld on Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:01 pm

HoneyandtheBear wrote:I'm humbled to see someone actually altering their opinion of the game because of my analysis.



i have always enjoyed your analysis on Origins. The title really gets no love ......
Image
 
 
 
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