Mercury

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The Gillespie House Fire

Post by Mercury on Wed May 22, 2013 4:08 am

Purramid_Head brought this up to me years ago and I'm sure it's still in a thread somewhere, but I'm just curious as to what people think about it:
Image
This is the Silent Hill Perfect Navigation Book from 2002. We see that Konami did indeed sanction this, but it's not one of their publications. This means that it is not on-par with a document like Lost Memories. Take note of the fire in the window.

Image
5 years later...
In Silent Hill: Origins, when Travis approaches the Gillespie house, we see the fire burning in the same place as the cover of the guide. However when we go to the source of the fire, we see that it actually takes place two rooms behind the one in the picture as the windows at the back of the house are visible when finding Alessa.

Do you believe the official word at the time of SH1's release that the fire started with the boiler in the cellar? Do you believe the official guide from Konami at the time that states that Dahlia was the source of the fire (ctrl+F "fire")? Do you believe that there was some kind of intention to place the ritual upstairs at some point (Silent HIll: Play Novel illustrates many unused scenarios from the first game, so it's not a stretch to assume there may be more)? Do you believe that the writer for Origins used this cover as the basis for retconning the boiler? Do you believe something else entirely?
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Post by Floodclaw on Wed May 22, 2013 6:18 am

I always thought the police report of 'boiler in the cellar' was just a cover-up.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Xuchilbara on Wed May 22, 2013 6:28 am

Floodclaw wrote:I always thought the police report of 'boiler in the cellar' was just a cover-up.


Didn't that SH3 investigation memo hint that it indeed was a cover up?
Client: Claudia Wolf
Request: Searching for (then infant)
Alessa Gillespie, kidnapped by man
named Harry Mason

No word from police.
Kidnap location unknown.

Old Silent Hill newspaper article:
Alessa Gillespie (7) dead in fire.

Links to current case?
To be investigated. Priority: low.

Using alias "Heather."
Neighbors do not know real name.
What is she hiding?


As for the OP this could be due to the fact that the members of the team disagreed on location, or a translation issue of Koshiki, although I do not have the original source so we cannot compare. Koshiki uses the word "cellar", not "basement". Cellar isn't always specific to being a basement.
Dahlia performed the technique to bring about the descent of the cult's
god using Alessa in the cellar of her own house.


While cellars are generally downstairs as one might imagine, wine cellars have also been known to be upstairs.
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Post by Mercury on Wed May 22, 2013 6:36 am

@Flood: It was, yeah.

@Purr: The entire room Alessa was in looks like an entertainment room. There's a bar area and shelves, I think. It's obviously not the ritual room from Nowhere either, so it likely is some kind of wine cellar. What I'm curious about though is if that was the original intention or if it was added at some point.
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Post by globalwolf on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:28 am

Mercury wrote:@Purr: The entire room Alessa was in looks like an entertainment room. There's a bar area and shelves, I think. It's obviously not the ritual room from Nowhere either, so it likely is some kind of wine cellar. What I'm curious about though is if that was the original intention or if it was added at some point.


The designers of the game probably didn't really care that much where the fire started. I think it's fairly safe to say that the FAQ description of it being a "cellar" was referring to a basement (especially given that, while the boiler fire thing was definitely a cover-up, it would be more likely to work if the fire started below ground near the boiler). The fire's location in Silent Hill: 0rigins could be either a reference to the location of the fire on the cover of the Perfect Navigation guidebook, or just the result of the game's developers taking it to be the canonical location. The guidebook probably wanted to put it above ground to keep the effect suitable (if it were underground, you couldn't see it, and if the entire house were bursting into flame, the entire mood of the cover would be radically different). So, the idea that it was in the cellar was probably the original, but it's a very mild retcon, given that the only official source mentioning a different starting location is a single note in an FAQ.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by jam6i on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:44 pm

The whole "Gillespie house fire" situation is just one huge pile of clear as mud information. There are conflicting sources of information, and no real definitive 100% "these are the facts" answers. It's pretty much surrounded in debate and hypothesis, which is fine with me. I don't think it's necessarily a topic that needs clarification because it's almost entirely arbitrary: having a definitive answer wouldn't cause sudden enlightenment for anything. It would be a very "meh, ok " answer.

I've seen some people (specifically TP) get all bent out of shape over the topic. It's just a video game, and completely fictional FUN.
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Post by X-rust on Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:28 am

I thought Dahlia dragged Alessa into the basement, locked up and burn it.
Image
After girl was burned, Gillespie take her body, wrapped it in some kind of ceremonial clothes and move to the second floor.
Image

Pay attention to the candles (!) - it not melted:
Image

After that she met Travis and left the place, confident in the fact that Grady heared the girl's cry.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by globalwolf on Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:31 pm

jam6i wrote:I've seen some people (specifically TP) get all bent out of shape over the topic.


Maybe that's because some people just don't like 0rigins and want to hate everything about it? I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be bothered by something like that. Major retcons, like Ian Malcolm's mysterious resurrection in the second Jurassic Park novel, are annoying. Minor things like this, especially when the location isn't firmly set to begin with, shouldn't really affect anyone's enjoyment of the game.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by sameday on Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:33 pm

I find it funny how people use that picture as one of the Proofs as the ritual happen in the second basement but look at the picture closely tell me who does that little girl look like.the light in the second floor doesn't look like fire.it looks like lights are on.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Xuchilbara on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:42 pm

If you zoom in those are flames.
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Post by sameday on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:07 am

i zoom in as much a i can but its still hard to tell but my point is this picture isn't much proof
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Xuchilbara on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:54 pm

Sure, if you want to ignore the fact that it is an official image and how commercial art works with focal points, you can do that. But I disagree with you, and frankly I am tired of people who try to be as detailed as possible overlooking small details because they don't like them and don't want to admit that A) TS is flawed and human and B)It contradicts their theory. And so with that, I don't care if you think it's minor and silly. It's an important detail to me and maybe some other people on the forum and it's worth discussing and not dismissing.

I tried to get it up close, not that it matters to you because you don't want to discuss it:
Image
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Post by Princess Kenny on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:06 pm

Either it's a fire or someone is using an orange light bulb. My money is on the fire.
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Post by Mercury on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:03 pm

@X-rust: I never paid attention to the candles before. Nice find! I wonder why they wouldn't be melted considering that they can do so just from hot weather or body heat.

@sameday: It's possible that they're just lights on in the house, but there are a few things to consider here: Cheryl being outside of the house means that she is experiencing some type of imprint, whether it's a part of Alessa's dreams or a flashback. If she were to travel back to an important event where we see orange lights in the window of Alessa's house, it's highly likely that it's referring to the fire. The event is too important to the story to not consider.
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Post by Borg on Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:12 am

Mercury wrote:@X-rust: I never paid attention to the candles before. Nice find! I wonder why they wouldn't be melted considering that they can do so just from hot weather or body heat.


Well, since it's just a game I guess they didn't pay attention to such small details.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Mercury on Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:53 am

I wouldn't rule that out. It's a good observation though, the robe included, because it alludes to differences in the environment. Alessa is charred in a room that's still intact, in clothing/covering that's unburned, surrounded by candles which are still formed.
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Post by sameday on Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:41 pm

I'm not ignoring. or denying anything whether its flames or lights my point I was getting across was this picture does not proof that it happen in the second floor and how Cheryl is witnessing the ritual she was supposed to come from.

@mercury I like how you took good observation on the candles and how in the flash back how dallah is trying to drag alessa in the basement.

also I would like to point out how in Sh in the intro before the start menu we see a young girl who is covered in bandages which we later find out later or figured its alessa from the accident but in origin this same girl was burned but to a crisp.something to take note on.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Xuchilbara on Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:27 pm

sameday wrote:I'm not ignoring. or denying anything whether its flames or lights my point I was getting across was this picture does not proof that it happen in the second floor and how Cheryl is witnessing the ritual she was supposed to come from.




If you're going to ignore occam's razor you need to come up with a sufficient argument to explain the picture, the focal point, the intent, and the meaning. Otherwise you're just disagreeing with no real reason or explanation.
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Post by Mercury on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:39 pm

sameday wrote:how Cheryl is witnessing the ritual she was supposed to come from.
The Play Novel shows that Alessa had the power to astral project in Cheryl's presence. SH1 also tells us that there was an emotional bond between the two. With this considered, I'd wager that she's experiencing what happened in her dreams via Alessa. Either that, or she's able to view events that she was present for as this was before the split actually occurred, meaning that Cheryl was still Alessa.

sameday wrote:also I would like to point out how in Sh in the intro before the start menu we see a young girl who is covered in bandages which we later find out later or figured its alessa from the accident but in origin this same girl was burned but to a crisp.something to take note on.
SH1 shows that Alessa is in actuality bandaged from head to toe. The Alessa we see in the opening is likely the projection. There are other strange things in the opening and blooper reel that aren't shown in-game like the Gillespie house in an isolated location, Dahlia running inside of a temple with golden pillars, and Cybil standing at her headstone in a secluded graveyard.
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Post by ERROR on Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:35 pm

People seem to be ignoring something fairly critical in regards to this picture: the setting. In both SILENT HILL and ORIGINS, we see the real Gillespie house.

Image

It's not on a hill as is suggested by the image in question. Therefore—it's just an artistic representation, not something meant to be taken that seriously, especially when it's contradictory to two official depictions of the actual Gillespie house.
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