Spiritis

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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Spiritis on Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:25 am

So, i've been pondering this for awhile, and thought i'd share it with you guys, and maybe we can even have an idea of what PT could've been.

The immense relationship between PT and Silent Hill 4.. almost seems as if Kojima played through The Room for the first time and said "Damn, I should bring this back!"

So, let's start by numbering off the comparisons:

1. Hallway and The Room - An inescapable interior of fright.

"Watch out, the gap in the door, it's a seperate reality"
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"The only me is me, are you sure the only you is you?"
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The first comparison I have to present, is the hallway in PT. At the end of the hallway is a door, a door which leads back to the same exact hallway as before. This presents a scenario seen in only ONE other Silent Hill title, The Room.

In the Room, you are inside of a small space, your apartment. There is no way of escaping your room, until the very end(but, we'll leave that out since PT was just a demo). There is a certain part of the game where, when you start to return to your room, you experience hauntings, your room starts to change, different horrific events start to take place, and this can be said about the Hallway. Each time you reenter the hallway, something new is happening, these are even called hauntings, but we'll get to that later.

The hallway changes, from the scenery, to the things inside of it. The same can be said about silent Hill 4: The Room.
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2. The Radio situation - Thanks for the info!


"Don't touch that dial now, we're just getting started."

I was not able to find a picture of the radio in SH4 XD, but, i'll explain.

In Silent Hills(PT), we face yet another scenario that is shown in only ONE other Silent Hill title, The Room. In this scenario, there are two things to pay notice to, one thing is that there is a placed radio in the interior that you're trapped in, and both are placed on a surface. Both the Hallway and the room have a radio, but what's special about these, is that they both work, and tune in to some station that gives us news that pertains to the games story.

The second thing to notice about the radio situation, is that the person we are playing, does not carry a traditional silent hill radio to warn them of the dangers surrounding them. Nope, the only radio to be found in both games, are the radios placed which gives us news about the story, most of which involve murder and death(I guess that's the same thing, in a way), and these are the only two silent hill titles to present both of these scenarios for the radio. There is even a mutter of a situation where someone hangs themselves with an umbilical cord.. the only other Silent Hill game to feature something as odd as an umbilical cord, was the famous one in the supers room, in Silent Hill 4, I took that as a clear reference.
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3. Bathrooms and Holes - Oh My :/


"Now's the time, do it!"
"There is no turning back"
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Now, this is a small comparison, but one i'd like to note anyway. There is a bathroom, Henry's bathroom, which serves as the gateway to entering other worlds, at least until the second part of the game I believe. What is most noticeable, is that The Room and PT are the only two Silent Hill titles to not only have a noticeable hole in the bathroom wall, but for each of them to serve as a gateway to seeing another world, or time. This is obvious when in the sped up hallway session, where you must peek into the hole outside of the bathroom, to experience what we can only assume was the murder than the radio spoke of earlier, a murder that happened long before you got there, so, a hole in the bathroom with supernatural powers.

What's more obvious? Both of these bathrooms are designed exactly the same. Yes, the sink, the bathtub, even the door in each of the games bathrooms are placed in exactly the same positions, even the mirrors are the same type of mirrors, same sizes. I may be wrong, but even the shower curtain is placed the same, but I might have forgotten since last time I checked.. either way, these are the only two titles to have exact matching bathrooms, with supernatural holes, where certain things take place. Something to just ponder about.
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4. Hauntings and Ghosts - I can see them..

"Look behind you, I said look behind you"
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This has been discussed before, that Silent Hill 4 was the first Silent Hill to feature ghost enemies, and the only Silent Hill game to date, to revolve around ghost enemies, as well as the famous hauntings in the room. PT seems to share this same trait, and very heavily. Now remember, i'm comparing this all through only the demo, and in the demo, the only "enemy" we've encountered, were ghosts, or I should say, a ghost, THE ghost of lisa, that seems to stalk you more and more, each time you reenter the hallway, the same as the hauntings when you reentered the room.


But, mind you, these hauntings in both games can actually be avoided. The room only required holy candles, however, PT requires two things, to avoid the first lisa encounter, you must stick to solving all the puzzles without turning around to getting curious, and the lisa ghost by the end of the demo can be avoided by spotting her, and walking away slowly while not losing sight of her. But these aren't the only hauntings in PT, not to me, as the fetus, baby in the fridge, the sped up hallway, and even the sounds all count as hauntings to me, so both PT and Silent Hill 4 have multiple hauntings, not just pertaining to ghosts, but also BABIES, sounds, and weird imagery.


If you overthink it, you can also find similar hauntings that are presented in different ways. In The Room, your radio can become haunted, in PT, there is a part where the radio starts speaking swedish in a demonic tone. In The Room, your fridge can become haunted and inside, a cat, with blood everywhere. In PT, there is a bloody fridge, which we assume a baby is trapped inside. In The Room, there is a haunting where a head falls down if you look out of the window, while in PT, Lisa can appear outside of the window, for example.
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5. Neither of these are in Silent Hill - Mind you, i'm basing this off of the demo only, and nothing confirms this hallway resides in Silent Hill!



I don't have any photos or witty sayings for this one, but let me explain.. okay, theres not much to explain for this one, but, and mind you I haven't played downpour, but these are the only two Silent Hill titles to not directly bring the town into the game, and that's what confused players before seeing the trailer at the end, because nothing about PT shouted silent hill, and by nothing, I mean no fog, no town, none of that. The same thing confused players with The Room, which led to many people claiming The Room wasn't a true Silent Hill game.
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6. The message written in red - Okay, what does this mean!?

"Forgive me Lisa, there is a monster inside of me"
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While this is a shot out of the ballpark, they are similar, and again, are the only two games in the series that share this(If PT ever was released). They are both messages, written in red, that are on or around the door that we assume is the exit out of this nightmare. These messages also share one more similarity, giving us an identity. Not us the player, but giving us an identity of another character, at first, we don't know who walter is, we even assume we're playing as walter at first, but eventually, we find out walter is the killer we are up against. The same thing happens with PT, Lisa gives the ghost a name, a name we did not know until that message.
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7. The killer - Is he satanic? We know he's into rituals!

"They said it sounded like he was chanting some strange spell"
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Now, PT references two different murders, however, they focus on one in particular.. the father who murdered his family, and supposedly Lisa, the ghost haunting us. When you listen, you realize there was something odd about the father, that he shares with Walter Sullivan... other than the brutal killings, they both seem to be involved in some sort of ritual, or demonic situation. While walters motivation was clear, the demo of PT only tells us that this man, the father, was chanting a sequence of numbers, and then sat in his car listening to the radio(The same one giving us 204863 i'm assuming)after he commits the murders.


This gives me two conclusions, one, that both Walter and the father were involved in some sort of demonic killing, and two, they both listened to another person tell them what to do. Walter gets the idea from the wishouse, after the kids teach him of the holy mother ritual. What we take from PT, is that the father is told to do this by the radio, for whatever reason, and it's clear when you look in the peephole in the sped up hallway sequence. It also turns out that the kids in Silent Hill 4 actually lied to Walter, and got him to do this so he could resurrect the devil, and i'm assuming, the father may have been tricked by the radio. The fetus tells us that lisa was cheating, however, the fetus possesses the same voice as the radio broadcaster, and could just as easily be lying to us, as he lied to the father.

Another thing pertains to the picture I posted, depending on the ending, you will see Walter in the room, in a way to say he hung himself.. the same thing the father was proposed to doing after the murders, the reference to the umbilical cord only furthers this comparison.

One more thing before we move on to my final comparison, is the protagonist, supposedly the walking deads norman reedus(lol), is only referenced as being the father by the fetus, once, and that lisa is haunting you, this leads us to believe that WE are the father, trapped in his own hell.. however... like I proposed before, the fetus could either be lying to us, or the fetus could simply be mistaking us for the father, meaning, we end up as another henry, a man just along for the ride, only a victim in another mans hell, why? the demo doesn't tell us this, but there is more to the protagonist than meets the eye.
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8. First Person Perspective - Maybe... only in the hallway?



Again, no witty saying or nice picture, just an explanation. Now, this may have been the most obvious comparison for any two silent hill titles to share, which is why I saved this beauty for last.

In The Room, it is the first and only Silent Hill title to feature a First person perspective view, PT shares this trait, but you wanna know something, a theory that I created? PT was going to have The Room effect, as in, if PT was ever finished to full(Always the future, fingers crossed!)then I have a feeling, with all of these comparisons, that only the hallways would feature first person view, such as only the room in Silent Hill 4 did. Let me explain...

--- It is my theory, that PT would have worked out very similar to Silent Hill 4 in play style, so similar it wouldn't even be funny to compare the two. So, let's say in PT, you wake up in the room at the start, and the door opens.. you go through the door and you enter the infamous hallway. At the end of this hallway is a door, now we know because of the demo, that this door leads right back to the hallway, but a different hallway, if that makes sense.

We go through countless numbers of hallways, but.. what if these hallways are simply paths to different worlds, such as the hole in Silent Hill 4? Confusing, I know, but hear me out.. Let's say in the full game, you go through ONE hallway, solve the puzzles, go through the hauntings, and at the end, when you enter that door, it actually puts you in a world, or level of PT, like the woods, or the subway world from The Room.

Let's say when you enter this world, the game turns into the traditional, third person silent hill perspective, and we must find the door at the end of this world, which upon entering, takes us back to the hallway in first person view, and we go through different puzzles and hauntings in order to unlock the door at the end, and enter the next world/level of the game, and so on, similar to that of Silent Hill 4, where you wake up and you're back in your room, and you must reenter the hole to enter a new world, and so on.---


So in turn, the hallways we went through in the demo, would have a full third person world/level between each of them, so it's not actually hallway after hallway such as the demo presented, yet the hallway parts, would be similar as seen in the demo, of course.

That's my theory on how the game would've possibly played out, with all of my previous comparisons in mind.
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Anyways you guys, I know PT has been said to have been canceled, but I just needed to get this off my chest, and since I know this community would actually appreciate my theory on this influence, and actually know wtf i'm talking about lol, I posted it all here.


FINALLY, what do you guys think? Did I nail it, do you think Kojima based PT off of The Room? I know a lot of people think it is a new output for the Silent Hill franchise, but all the comparisons are there, and i'm a huge Silent Hill 4 fanatic, I couldn't help but notice them all lol.

ALSO, if ANY of you notice any other comparisons, post em here! I'd be interested in reading them, as I know the rest of the community would be.


Thanks for reading, this took awhile, haha. I typed fast, so if I see any typos, i'll fix em'.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Otherworld on Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:57 am

You know, Silent Hill 4 seemed, in one sense or another to be ahead of its time. I mean, if this Silent Hill story came along and took the place of Homecoming it may have been received much better. It seems like it coming right after 2 and 3 put it at a disadvantage as it was nothing anyone expected.

Out of all the games referenced in PT, 4 seems to be represented the most.
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Tenebra on Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:11 am

I agree.

Sh4 is one of those games that (at least for me) has gained much respect over time. When it first appeared I did not like it at all, I felt that the changes introduced were completely unnecessary, but with time I learned to appreciate it more. But still I consider unforgivable that we never visited the town of Silent Hill.
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clips7

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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by clips7 on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:04 pm

I was one of the few that have always loved this game.....I think the reason why I initially loved it was because it was so different, but it still felt like SH game (terrifying atmosphere, obscure and abstract themes,.weird characters)...I even felt that at times it's story rivaled SH2, just because of it's concept and how the story itself is so bizarre.


Very nice comparison OP... 8-)
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by jam6i on Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:24 pm

I was in the camp that hated SH4 at first.

"Where's the flashlight?"
"Where the radio?"
"It's too bright."
"Ghosts???? What???"
"First person??? What???"
"Limited inventory? Why?"
"Item chest? This isnt Resident Evil."
"Where are the nurses?"
"Hand drawn maps? Lame."
"Saint medallions? Magic swords? What the fuck?"

But then you look at Origins and see that it fulfilled all the "requirements" of a SH game yet was somehow not good (or at least, just wasnt up to par with the previous games).

Then you realize that a game can be a good SH game without relying on those cliches. SH4 opened my mind to the franchise's potential. You don't need to satisfy the cliches of the first three games.

It's the same openness that allowed me to enjoy SM. If you have a good story with people behind the project who have a clear goal in mind, you can go so far with it.

SH4 was ahead of it's time, totally.

And I think SM was too.

But...I still hate the limited inventory in SH4. I won't deny that it's frustrating. I understand part of the reason is probably to encourage frequent visits to room 302 for all the notes and changes and stuff but...urrrgghh.
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Tenebra on Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:02 pm

jam6i wrote:I was in the camp that hated SH4 at first.

"Where's the flashlight?"
"Where the radio?"
"It's too bright."
"Ghosts???? What???"
"First person??? What???"
"Limited inventory? Why?"
"Item chest? This isnt Resident Evil."
"Where are the nurses?"
"Hand drawn maps? Lame."
"Saint medallions? Magic swords? What the fuck?"



Exactly. I would add:

 "Where is Silent Hill? Wait a minute ... We will not go there? What ????"
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by clips7 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:20 pm

I do wonder what other possible areas that can be covered in SH itself. SH4 showed that you don't need the town to experience the horror. I share Naroon's thoughts that I wouldn't mind seeing a game done in the neighboring town of Brahms....and even tho it would be kinda cliché`-ish, I also wouldn't mind if Cybil had a son or daughter and they grew up to experience their own little journey.....(maybe wondering why nobody never found out what happened to their mom..etc)

I think there is a huge potential for new areas and environments to be explored in Brahms, then you can eventually travel to SH. I think you have done enough with the town itself as Downpour was slightly pushing the town towards metropolitan aspects with it's subway system. SH is supposed to a small resort town, not a town with subways.

I don't think folks would mind going back to Midwich, or the hospital again with the graphical capabilities of the Xbox1 or Ps4....those areas with the right artists can look amazing and I wouldn't mind traveling through some of those areas again....I kinda wish Cybil didn't get the ax...I liked her as a character.... :|
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by devil hunter on Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:59 am

Some of those complaints never made sense to me, like the one with the radio and the flashlight, I didn't even think about that when I played the game because how unnecessary they were in that game, I forgot they were missing.

People complained about the lack of Nurse monsters, really? A lot of people call Patients "Nurses" anyway.

I believe we had hand drawn maps in previous games too so that complaint makes no sense as well.

Same with ghosts.

We weren't in SH for most part in 3 too.


Seems like people are looking for things to complain about, whether it makes sense or not.


Also.....too bright? Who cares :/
Last edited by devil hunter on Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:36 am.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Otherworld on Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:51 am

^ Ya, it just seems like because 4 was so much different than 2 or 3 it was never given a chance ....

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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by jam6i on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:47 am

They may seem like petty complaints now, but back in 2004 they were valid. Up until that point we only had the first 3 games. 3 games that followed the same exact formula back to front. So when 4 started popping up it was challenging what fans of the series had known...ALL they had known about the franchise.

They seem like petty worries now. But back then they were legit worries.
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Otherworld on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:52 am

^ Yup, I had the same ones. But not heading to Silent Hill is the one that really threw me off. Even after you have a good grasp of the story, you still wanted to visit the streets of Silent Hill....

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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by devil hunter on Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:03 pm

jam6i wrote:They may seem like petty complaints now, but back in 2004 they were valid. Up until that point we only had the first 3 games. 3 games that followed the same exact formula back to front. So when 4 started popping up it was challenging what fans of the series had known...ALL they had known about the franchise.

They seem like petty worries now. But back then they were legit worries.


That's the problem, some of them are not legit or valid. Why should not going to SH be a valid complaint? And why isn't like that anymore?
 
 
 
 
 
 

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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Naroon on Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:34 pm

Yeah, even when SH4 was new, a lot of the complaints were petty or silly. The fanbase was the same way when SH2 came out, the game got regularly shat on for not being a true sequel to SH1 and basically taking on new themes and ideas unrelated to those of the first game. SH3 was basically formed solely off the feedback that people wanted a game more like SH1 at the time. By the time 3 came out, people had warmed up to SH2, etc. It was an endless cycle with this fanbase, never pleased, always bothered...
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Otherworld on Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:00 pm

Not going to Silent Hill in a game named Silent Hill is still a little peculiar.

Then again, so was Silent Hill 4 compared to the rest of the series.
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by devil hunter on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:11 pm

It's still illogical because SH3 already established something like that can happen, sure you went in SH eventaully, but it really shouldn't have been such a shock you didn't go there in 4.

Besides, I'm pretty sure there are examples of things where title has nothing to do with the content, like Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Otherworld on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:53 pm

Yes, but Silent Hill is a specific place. When the game is named after a particular location you expect to end up there sooner or later.
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by devil hunter on Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:00 pm

Halloween 3: Season of the Witch
 
 
 
 
 
 

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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Naroon on Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:22 am

Yes, but Silent Hill is a specific place. When the game is named after a particular location you expect to end up there sooner or later.


Eh not necessarily. I can fully accept the idea that the 'Silent Hill' name can simply mean it takes place in the SH universe, in the same continuity. It doesn't mean a game just has to go feature the town at some point, even if only for a few minutes.
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Otherworld on Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:13 am

Naroon wrote:
Yes, but Silent Hill is a specific place. When the game is named after a particular location you expect to end up there sooner or later.


Eh not necessarily. I can fully accept the idea that the 'Silent Hill' name can simply mean it takes place in the SH universe, in the same continuity. It doesn't mean a game just has to go feature the town at some point, even if only for a few minutes.


Agreed, but we are speaking in past tense. We all can fully accept that things like this can happen because of Silent Hill 4 now. But at the time of release, Silent Hill games were played in Silent Hill for obvious reasons.

Homecoming uses the premise of the otherworld existing everywhere that was touched upon in 3. But we end up in Silent Hill in Homecoming.

Silent Hill 4 is unique. And at the time of release of idea of a Silent Hill game not visiting Silent Hill was a very foreign idea to the franchise especially after 1,2, and 3.
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PT, the next Silent Hill 4

Post by Naroon on Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:30 pm

I guess other people did have hang ups about that, but even in 2004 I thought it was super cool that the game didn't really take place in the eponymous town ;).
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