Silenthill4life

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Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:09 am

For the love of me I can't understand where this game went wrong.

I thought this game was so good a copy of it should be stored in a national archive. From the beginning to the end I was hooked.

I was wondering what about this game you guys didn't enjoy and why you think it wasn't as well received as its predecessors in the series?
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Meltdown

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Post by Meltdown on Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:40 am

I have played 4 and Shattered Memories the least out of the series. Not because the story was lacking, but basically just because its not available on Xbox 360. I had a copy of it for Xbox, but when I moved up to the 360, I was basically unable to play it. Its supposedly one of the few Xbox games you can play on a 360, but I've never been able to make it work. Same with SH2. I was able to get 2 to play on my 360, but it was extremely buggy and just all around horrid. I eventually bought SH2 for PlayStation, but I have yet to buy 4 for PS2, and honestly I think I'd rather get Origins for PS2 first (I already have it for Vita).

TL;DR It was a great game, but not one of my favorites, and for that reason I haven't got around to re-purchasing it.
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Nachtwaechter

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Post by Nachtwaechter on Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:49 am

First of all, I have to say that I enjoyed SH4: The Room, but it is not one of my favorites. I don't hate this game at all, what I'm about to say is just me being my usual over-critical self. I love complaining way too much. :lol:

- The wheelchairs were pretty dumb. Yes, having a single deserted wheelchair slightly move on its own can create a very creepy and lonely atmosphere, but half a dozen of them aimlessly moving around in an empty hospital corridor attempting to run over your protagonist is pretty goofy. I have to admit that this is pretty cool, though:
REVEAL SPOILER
Image


- Ghosts are overdone enemies. There's nothing that makes you feel quite as helpless as having to face invincible enemies that chase you relentlessly, but from a horror franchise that is known for its genius monster designs, I expected a little more than the same long-haired female ghost I've seen in every horror movie ever. Personally I find monsters like the Twin Victims to be way more disturbing, even if they can be disposed of with regular weapons. I did like Richard's ghost, though.

- The fact that you had to backtrack and revisit every level was a bit disappointing, at least for me. I would have preferred exploring some more.

- Escort missions are meh. Having to babysit another character often makes games unnecessarily frustrating, and in horror games I prefer to be alone because it adds to the oppressive and lonely atmosphere, especially in rather surreal games like Silent Hill. Eileen beating the shit out of some monsters with her handbag never fails to amuse me, though.

All in all, I think this game was not quite as well-received as the others because it was so different. When a game series has been around for quite a while - especially if it is as beloved as Silent Hill - people tend to approach each new game with certain expectations. The story is set in Ashfield, not Silent Hill. You have neither a flashlight nor a portable radio. The main focus is on the main villain with your protagonist being more of an observer/innocent bystander, while Harry, Heather and James all had important parts in their stories. Ghosts rather than monsters take the spotlight etc.

SH4 is the second album of your new favorite artist who dared stepping out of his comfort zone for a change and is now considered to be a sellout by some of his fans because he didn't do what people expected him to.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:17 am

Meltdown wrote:I have played 4 and Shattered Memories the least out of the series. Not because the story was lacking, but basically just because its not available on Xbox 360. I had a copy of it for Xbox, but when I moved up to the 360, I was basically unable to play it. Its supposedly one of the few Xbox games you can play on a 360, but I've never been able to make it work. Same with SH2. I was able to get 2 to play on my 360, but it was extremely buggy and just all around horrid. I eventually bought SH2 for PlayStation, but I have yet to buy 4 for PS2, and honestly I think I'd rather get Origins for PS2 first (I already have it for Vita).

TL;DR It was a great game, but not one of my favorites, and for that reason I haven't got around to re-purchasing it.


Hey man thanks for your post!
It's a shame it wasn't working on the xbox 360. Konami has such a bad rep with technical aspects when it comes to the more recent SH games.

Nachtwaechter wrote:
All in all, I think this game was not quite as well-received as the others because it was so different. When a game series has been around for quite a while - especially if it is as beloved as Silent Hill - people tend to approach each new game with certain expectations. The story is set in Ashfield, not Silent Hill. You have neither a flashlight nor a portable radio. The main focus is on the main villain with your protagonist being more of an observer/innocent bystander, while Harry, Heather and James all had important parts in their stories. Ghosts rather than monsters take the spotlight etc.

SH4 is the second album of your new favorite artist who dared stepping out of his comfort zone for a change and is now considered to be a sellout by some of his fans because he didn't do what people expected him to.


Hey dude, thanks for the post!
What you say is certainly true

The one thing I thought was disappointing was that SH2 was immensely different from SH1 but it was highly acclaimed, but I guess that's because it was indeed revolutionary in the genre of psychological horror.

I just always felt that SH4 was different in a good way from the previous games. It had unique gameplay (first person for the room and good combat i.e. charging up your attacks). Also the protagonist's circumstances were very similar to that of Harry Mason in that he didn't have a compelling story like Heather or James did. I thought it was a refreshing change to head back in that direction.
It was also probably the scariest SH game so far (excluding PT). The beginning was absolutely freaky. In fact the plot and the story progression was very ominous and terrifying.

I just feel like this game had so much good to offer, yet most of it was ignored. It's honestly dumbfounding.
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by devil hunter on Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:34 am

I can't really add much to what was already said, I'm not a fan of the escort mission. The fact that Eileen can defend herself doesn't make it less frustrating considering the fact that she needs to recieve as less damage as possible for better endings and she tends to attack enemies and just get hurt in the process. That doesn't happen when you simply remove the weapons as she tends to stand behind while enemies are focused on you.

I don't mind the enemies (though, racing wheelchairs are kind of silly indeed), I just think that most of them are kind of unremarkable (I mean the moths, leeches, those weird fungus things or whatever they are etc.).

The game makes up for some truly disturbing designs of other enemies, but here's one actual problem I have with the enemies....they fail when it comes to the sounds.

The burging Patients, dogs that make cheetah sounds, monkey sounds those other enemies make. Most of those sounds are more weird/funny than scary. Some of the monsters had better sounds in the trailer than in the actual game (like the twin victims).

Oh, actually, I dislike the ghosts, because they're more annoying than scary.

Lots of characters are underveloped, some exists just to get killed. Eileen is with you through most of the game and she barely gets much more development than others.

The fact that you go through the levels again, I mean, they could've at least added more new areas and you don't get to re-visit the creepiest level :/


I don't mind the combat system, I kind of like it actually, the only other part of the gameplay I dislike is the limited inventory. It's mostly annoying and it doesn't add much to the game, you just have to constantly backtrack and since there are holes that lead to the apartment in a lot of places what's the point?



I think that's all, despite its flaws though, I think it's a fun game.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Alistair on Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:32 pm

I love Silent Hill 4!
Out of the first four, SH2 would be my least favorite.
I'm not sure how I'd rank SH/3/4, they're all so great and each have their own ups/downs that it would be impossible for me to choose between them.
I really love the story and level design in the game. I also think Henry is a great protagonist.
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Post by clips7 on Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:50 am

Devil Hunter pretty much summed it up mostly for me...i feel the same way except that i really didn't feel that characters was underdeveloped. I agree that characters didn't get that much air time, but they was just a means to an end and you pretty much knew they was screwed once you saw what was happening.

And the sound effects..:lol:...yeah they could have done a better job there as well...those cheetah sounds from those dogs and the burping patients?..:lol: who gave those effects the green light? I think somebody mentioned that the burping effect was put in the game because actual dead bodies tend to burp as the air and gases leave the body,...even so they could have come up with some better sounding effects.

Having said all that tho, SH4 is one of my favorite games because of it's obscure and abstract atmosphere...that game to this very day feels very different from traditional SH games, yet at the same time feels like a traditional SH game...oh and one enemy that annoyed the s**t outta me was those elevator monsters....i lost a ton of health trying to kill and avoid them....>_<
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Post by Silenthill4life on Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:11 am

Sophia Peletier wrote:I love Silent Hill 4!
Out of the first four, SH2 would be my least favorite.
I'm not sure how I'd rank SH/3/4, they're all so great and each have their own ups/downs that it would be impossible for me to choose between them.
I really love the story and level design in the game. I also think Henry is a great protagonist.


Henry is indeed an amazing protagonist! I wish all the sh fans shared your opinion :P

clips7 wrote:Devil Hunter pretty much summed it up mostly for me...i feel the same way except that i really didn't feel that characters was underdeveloped. I agree that characters didn't get that much air time, but they was just a means to an end and you pretty much knew they was screwed once you saw what was happening.

And the sound effects..:lol:...yeah they could have done a better job there as well...those cheetah sounds from those dogs and the burping patients?..:lol: who gave those effects the green light? I think somebody mentioned that the burping effect was put in the game because actual dead bodies tend to burp as the air and gases leave the body,...even so they could have come up with some better sounding effects.

Having said all that tho, SH4 is one of my favorite games because of it's obscure and abstract atmosphere...that game to this very day feels very different from traditional SH games, yet at the same time feels like a traditional SH game...oh and one enemy that annoyed the s**t outta me was those elevator monsters....i lost a ton of health trying to kill and avoid them....>_<


I can understand how the sound effects seemed out of place but surely that would be an irrelevant aspect in the grand scheme of things.
The monster designs were creepy and the enemies were quite hard to engage in combat (but in a good way), so isn't that what really matters.

To critique sound effects just feels so pedantic to me. I don't think that made for a bad game

And I agree completely with your perspective on the character development/'characterisation. I don't think they were underdeveloped at all but as you said given the plot/their circumstances and limited on-screen time we saw just the perfect amount of what was needed to identify with them, i.e. Richard Braintree as a surly middle-aged tenant was well established with his dismissal of Henry (refusing to shake his hand) and his abrasive attitude towards Child Walter.
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by devil hunter on Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:35 am

Well, about the sound effects, think of it like this, I was talking with someone about SH4 and he said that when he encountered the Patients he shit his pants, when he hit them he couldn't stop laughing.

So yeah, all horror is lost. You see why I think that kind of stuff can affect horror?

Sure, what clips wrote about actual dead bodies releasing gases is true. But come on. There are times when you put that kind of stuff and there are times when it's not really necessary.

Did you knew that when person dies that all the feces etc. that's inside the body gets out because the muscles etc. are not working anymore? (That's digusting btw. I apologize).

Imagine if they decided to put that detail into the game, that's also a detail which many (if not all of them) zombie movies, shows etc. ignore.


About the characters, sure you could say that they were there for a perfect amount of time, though, same could be said for some victims in certain Friday the 13th movies, they appear and they literally die a few minutes later.

Granted, same thing with Downpour, but at least you get some insight into character's psyche, they're portrayed a little better, reasonable freaked out or broken. So, it'a little more tolerable there.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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Post by Silenthill4life on Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:05 am

devil hunter wrote:Well, about the sound effects, think of it like this, I was talking with someone about SH4 and he said that when he encountered the Patients he shit his pants, when he hit them he couldn't stop laughing.

So yeah, all horror is lost. You see why I think that kind of stuff can affect horror?

Sure, what clips wrote about actual dead bodies releasing gases is true. But come on. There are times when you put that kind of stuff and there are times when it's not really necessary.

Did you knew that when person dies that all the feces etc. that's inside the body gets out because the muscles etc. are not working anymore? (That's digusting btw. I apologize).

Imagine if they decided to put that detail into the game, that's also a detail which many (if not all of them) zombie movies, shows etc. ignore.


Yeah I can see now how the burping noise was inappropriate then

devil hunter wrote:About the characters, sure you could say that they were there for a perfect amount of time, though, same could be said for some victims in certain Friday the 13th movies, they appear and they literally die a few minutes later.


Yeah but in SH4 for whatever duration the characters were in we had strong insights into the personality, their past affiliation with Walter and how Henry responds/interacts with them. Plus a lot of detail was supplemented with mementos/articles we find in game.
It wasn't as though they were just present for a stabbing/execution. We saw moments before and after their deaths and in my opinion, it worked effectively to elaborate on their characters.
I think the characters were well done.
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Nachtwaechter on Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:33 am

I didn't mind some characters having very little screentime before their untimely demise. If your game is set in a big appartment building and the person you play as appears to be a rather reclusive individual who only knows his neighbors in passing, that doesn't seem all that strange and fits in okay. In fact I think it adds to the lonely atmosphere of this game - you constantly ran into other people, but they never stay with you for long or interact with you in a way that makes you feel more comfortable.

It only bothered me with Cynthia because she had this big dramatic death scene and the game suddenly decided that I have to care immensely for that random chick who had about 5 lines of dialogue and awkwardly asked Henry to sleep with her.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by devil hunter on Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:52 am

That's what I had on my mind, I mean scenes like that don't really work.

I wouldn't be bothered so much except that Eileen also doesn't get that much development.

The game is focused a little too much on what happened in Walter's past, it says things which characters did before, there's not much "now".
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Fur on Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:34 pm

There's not a thing I would not like about SH4 apart from occasional ghosts being a nuisance while I try to explore the apartments.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

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Post by Silenthill4life on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:21 am

Nachtwaechter wrote:I didn't mind some characters having very little screentime before their untimely demise. If your game is set in a big appartment building and the person you play as appears to be a rather reclusive individual who only knows his neighbors in passing, that doesn't seem all that strange and fits in okay. In fact I think it adds to the lonely atmosphere of this game - you constantly ran into other people, but they never stay with you for long or interact with you in a way that makes you feel more comfortable.

It only bothered me with Cynthia because she had this big dramatic death scene and the game suddenly decided that I have to care immensely for that random chick who had about 5 lines of dialogue and awkwardly asked Henry to sleep with her.


I think it was dramatic because it was the first death. It dramatically highlighted just how dangerous and intimidating the antagonistic force in the game will be.
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by clips7 on Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:47 am

I just always loved SH4's concept. Being locked up in your apt, with notes on your chained up door saying "DON'T GO OUTSIDE"....haha, really disturbing and to have all of those terrifying moments inside your apt while the world outside your window is functioning as normal. Sometimes i would just stare out of Henry's living room window and watch the buses, cars and people stroll by while i was dealing with the madness in my apt...it was bit surreal.

Occasionally, if you stared out the window a falling head would drop by...haha..the first time that happened it scared the s**t outta me. It completely caught me off guard. I think the head itself was one of the dev's from the game itself, but it drops by so fast you can't really see it.

I liked SH4's story because it wasn't structured around looking for a missing dead person or some nutty cult...well there was some cult backstory behind concerning Walter, but not in the traditional sense of the said cult member trying to revive a god or something.

For me the storyline felt fresh and different and Henry was just a guy in the wrong place at the wrong time and got surged up in Walter's nightmare...the dynamic between Walter and the room was quite bizarre and interesting at the same time as well...he looked at the room or the apt as his "mother".....i loved how unique the storyline was implemented.
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Post by Silenthill4life on Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:23 am

clips7 wrote:I just always loved SH4's concept. Being locked up in your apt, with notes on your chained up door saying "DON'T GO OUTSIDE"....haha, really disturbing and to have all of those terrifying moments inside your apt while the world outside your window is functioning as normal. Sometimes i would just stare out of Henry's living room window and watch the buses, cars and people stroll by while i was dealing with the madness in my apt...it was bit surreal.

Occasionally, if you stared out the window a falling head would drop by...haha..the first time that happened it scared the s**t outta me. It completely caught me off guard. I think the head itself was one of the dev's from the game itself, but it drops by so fast you can't really see it.

I liked SH4's story because it wasn't structured around looking for a missing dead person or some nutty cult...well there was some cult backstory behind concerning Walter, but not in the traditional sense of the said cult member trying to revive a god or something.

For me the storyline felt fresh and different and Henry was just a guy in the wrong place at the wrong time and got surged up in Walter's nightmare...the dynamic between Walter and the room was quite bizarre and interesting at the same time as well...he looked at the room or the apt as his "mother".....i loved how unique the storyline was implemented.


Great post!
I agree completely

Graphically it was a huge improvement too. The first person view of the apartment and as you said looking at the world pass by when you stare out the window was really good.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: where did this game go wrong?!!!
Last edited by Silenthill4life on Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:01 pm.
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Silenthill4life on Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:33 am

devil hunter wrote:That's what I had on my mind, I mean scenes like that don't really work.

I wouldn't be bothered so much except that Eileen also doesn't get that much development.

The game is focused a little too much on what happened in Walter's past, it says things which characters did before, there's not much "now".


Yes but focusing on their present when they were just going to be sacrificed would have added little to the story. The main focal point of the plot was learning about Walter and having Henry/Eileen try to avoid being sacrificed and stopping Walter.
That was very well done.

We saw just the perfect amount from Walter's victims (secondary characters) before they were sacrificed.

You also have to keep in mind this story wasn't like the stories from previous SH games. Walter's victims weren't as important as Dahlia, Kaufmann or Lisa (whose actions in the now/present added to the focal point of SH1's story, which was trying to resurrect god). Walter's victims and their role as secondary characters was of lesser significance than secondary characters' and their roles in the previous SH games because the story is structured as such.

As for Eileen, I guess she could have used more background info. Perhaps we could have had her sharing some intimate moments with Henry where they come to learn about each other, their past, etc but it certainly couldn't have been a blockbuster romance given how Henry is shy and their top priority was escaping from Walter's otherworlds.
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Deadalux on Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:33 pm

The ghosts seemed almost comical, and their noises were almost funny at times. Remember the burping ghost?
The "love" story wasn't really developed as well as it could have been.
Walter wasn't in it for long enough, so most of the time he was TOO unknowable.
The list goes on.
Long story short, it just wasn't as powerful or memorable.
With that being said, Silent Hill 4 is still one of the best Silent Hill games out there.
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Post by Silenthill4life on Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:45 am

Deadalux wrote:The ghosts seemed almost comical, and their noises were almost funny at times. Remember the burping ghost?
The "love" story wasn't really developed as well as it could have been.
Walter wasn't in it for long enough, so most of the time he was TOO unknowable.
The list goes on.
Long story short, it just wasn't as powerful or memorable.
With that being said, Silent Hill 4 is still one of the best Silent Hill games out there.


Do you mean the monsters?

I thought the ghosts were pretty intimidating and had cool designs pertaining to their respective deaths, i.e. Jasper's immolated ghost and Richard's Electric-buzzing ghost.

And I agree with you that perhaps Eileen and Henry's chemistry could have been exemplified but Henry was shy and timid. This was also the first time they truly interacted, given how Eileen comments to Richard that she only knew Henry's "name and face", before her encounter with him in the hospital otherworld.
Also their top priority was escaping Walter's otherworlds and defeating him.

I too would have liked more in-game appearances of Walter but he wasn't underutilised. He played his role as the mysterious antagonistic force very well.

And yes it is the best SH game ever!!!!
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Salah Talih on Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:29 am

I have enjoyed every part of the game. The personality of Henry was great, I like the idea of travelling between different worlds and the idea of being stuck in an apartment simply horrifies me.

But in my opinion, what made the game NOT a Silent Hill-like game was the following:
REVEAL SPOILER
Travelling to the different worlds through a hole in the bathroom?! SERIOUSLY?!!! And the Ghosts were... oh god! Silent Hill must never ever have ghosts, especially when they can be hit. (Ghosts can be hit?! I mean... WHAT?!) Even if they can be hit, they don't die. And many other things, small and big, that underrated the game. Oh god, Silent Team, you could have done better!


That's just my opinion. Looking at your picture, I can tell that your favorite game is SH4, (Regardless if I'm wrong) but hey! Every Silent Hill gamer finds the special things about a certain game. Look at me, my favorite game is not made by the Silent Team, it's by Climax studios. :roll:
Last edited by Salah Talih on Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:18 pm.
 
 
 
 
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