Silenthill4life

Member

Posts: 1109

Joined: Jan 04, 2015

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:25 pm

Nutmeg wrote:Walter is the antagonist because Henry is the protagonist. By the definition of a protagonist, Henry is that. The whole game is from his perspective, his point of view. This is the story as told by him. Not to mention, we play him. He's the main character. In order for Walter to be the protag, we'd need to be seeing the story from his point of view, but we're not. The game itself is Henry's story.

Taking from that, Walter would be the antagonist as described by the dictionary definition of an antagonist. He's not only trying to kill the protag (Henry), but trying to prevent the protag from achieving his goal (getting out of this mess alive).

All of the other characters are simply secondary/minor characters, whether villainous or not. Simply being villainous does not make one the main antagonist.


I think the problem is with my choice of wording. I shouldn't have referred to Walter's dad as the true antagonist because if we take the technical definitions of antagonist/protagonist used in literature then obviously that isn't the case.

What I meant was that I felt having that scene with Walter's memories of his abusive father echoing through the 2nd run of the apartment world (with the poignant music) DIRECTLY before the boss battle was significant. To me, it was almost like the creative director of the game was subliminally conveying the father's substantial responsibility in all that has transpired and how we should be sympathetic for Walter...directly before we kill him.

In fact I found it, emotionally harder to kill Walter after that scene. I genuinely felt sorry for him. I felt like that whole scene was done intentionally to raise the point that perhaps it's Walter's dad whom, we the audience, should be in opposition to rather than Walter himself.
Last edited by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:42 pm.
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

Member

Posts: 1109

Joined: Jan 04, 2015

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:38 pm

Marluxia wrote:
Is that based solely on the fact that you find the article of him in SH2? or did Team Silent actually say that from the start of developing the room, that it was in fact a SH IP?



It's on the SH4 wiki page:

Despite what has been popularized around the Internet, Silent Hill 4 was always meant to be connected to Silent Hill and not an unrelated separate horror game that later became a Silent Hill title, although different gameplay mechanics and change were intended.

The wiki page provides references to the actual specific article stating this
 
 
 
 
 

CrazyCatLady

Member

User avatar

Queen of Alien Relations

Posts: 5074

Joined: Sep 05, 2011

Location: United States

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by CrazyCatLady on Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:26 pm

Marluxia wrote:
Nutmeg wrote:^That is actually false and a common misconception. Silent Hill 4 was always a Silent Hill title.


Is that based solely on the fact that you find the article of him in SH2? or did Team Silent actually say that from the start of developing the room, that it was in fact a SH IP?


It was stated by members of "Team Silent" in interviews.

http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/feat ... _sep04.asp
http://www.silenthillmemories.net/sh4/a ... _03_04.jpg

Tsuboyama states there that Silent Hill 4 was always planned to be a sequel to SH3.

The second link is a transcript of another interview.

I think where the falsity started was that in early production, they had only come up with the subtitle The Room. But it always intended to be a Silent Hill regardless of title. I think one person just misinterpreted that and it started from there without people actually choosing to do their own research.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Deadalux

Member

User avatar

Posts: 745

Joined: Oct 01, 2011

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by Deadalux on Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:54 pm

The real antagonist of SH4 . . . from which perspective?
Walter's antagonist would certainly be Walter, however, it could also be all of the forces of the deities that are in league with his tormentor, Walter. Walter has power from the "Gods" on his side, after all.
***Keep in mind whats important, even if it doesn't come true, at least you became someone who would fight for what they believe in! Much love to you all, everybody***
 
 
 
 
 

devil hunter

Member

User avatar

Ghost

Posts: 6603

Joined: Sep 28, 2011

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by devil hunter on Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:40 pm

Why would an antagonist be himself?
 
 
 
 
 
 

CrazyCatLady

Member

User avatar

Queen of Alien Relations

Posts: 5074

Joined: Sep 05, 2011

Location: United States

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by CrazyCatLady on Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:43 pm

devil hunter wrote:Why would an antagonist be himself?


Man vs Himself. (i.e. Silent Hill 2)

This type of conflict is a popular one in the psychological genre. Just think of those movies where the antagonist turn out to be the protag's multiple personality.

The four main plot conflicts of story telling are: man vs nature; man vs unknown; man vs man; and man vs himself.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

devil hunter

Member

User avatar

Ghost

Posts: 6603

Joined: Sep 28, 2011

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by devil hunter on Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:01 pm

I know, i had James in mind when I wrote that post, but Walter never has that conflict, it's not like when James faced his demons so it doesn't work here. It's implied that Walter has some sort of control or something over his Otherworld and just uses it as means to get to his goal, be with mother.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

Moderator

User avatar

The Red God

Posts: 8698

Joined: Feb 21, 2006

Location: United States

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by Xuchilbara on Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:06 pm

devil hunter wrote:I know, i had James in mind when I wrote that post, but Walter never has that conflict, it's not like when James faced his demons so it doesn't work here. It's implied that Walter has some sort of control or something over his Otherworld and just uses it as means to get to his goal, be with mother.



Hold on there. He does have conflict. It's just 100 time more subtle than it is in 2, which is weird for me to say because 2 is like the most subtle of all the entries of the series..... (But in this case it's because we're seeing Walter's world from 3rd person view and not Walter's own view.)

Me and Mercury were discussing this a few months ago or a year ago when I replayed 4 again. You'll notice that Walter had no problems mercilessly slaughtering anyone. To our knowledge, that included children. This makes him seem like a crazed heartless sociopath.

But there's *something* in common all the victims, with the exception of one, have together.

REVEAL SPOILER
None of them actually loved Walter.


The only one who ever showed any sort of love to Walter in his entire life is Eileen Galvin. It is so prominent that his pure side stops HIMSELF from killing her. Why would his heart, manifested as that boy, do such a thing.....? Walter remembers that Eileen gave him that doll which he tells Henry about, he looks at it in fondness. He doesn't want to actually kill her because she is the only person he cares about because she really cared about him when he was younger. There is no other reason for him to be so hesitant with anyone else.
WHY NOT ZOIDBERG? (V)(;,,,;)(V)
 
 
 
 
 

devil hunter

Member

User avatar

Ghost

Posts: 6603

Joined: Sep 28, 2011

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by devil hunter on Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:26 pm

D'oh, I had one of those idiots moments, forgot the most obvious example.

However, could it still be said he's not the antagonist to himself by the end of the game since he decides to kill her like everyone else?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

Member

Posts: 1109

Joined: Jan 04, 2015

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by Silenthill4life on Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:36 pm

devil hunter wrote:D'oh, I had one of those idiots moments, forgot the most obvious example.

However, could it still be said he's not the antagonist to himself by the end of the game since he decides to kill her like everyone else?


Towards the end, after child walter or the manifestation of walter's goodness is abducted by the adult walter, we only see him banging on room 302 of the otherworld. So from this it seems he either didn't know Eileen was in trouble and about to be sacrificed or adult Walter managed to reinforce the importance of finding mother (hence why he is banging on room 302 throughout the boss fight) to the extent he intentionally chose to neglect Eileen.

Really it's seems like it's left unanswered
 
 
 
 
 

SilentHells

Posts: 30

Joined: Jan 13, 2015

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by SilentHells on Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:07 pm

I think you're right.
I love that part where you discover the truth about his parents and his past but I think it's his father who wanted to escape - also when you play that part you can hear woman's sounds like crying (I think it's his mother crying for what she did) so I think that the real antagonist is his father - for Henry is the antagonist Walter but this is about Walter himself. So that's what I think, hope I helped ;)
I was weak. That’s why I needed you… Needed someone to punish me for my sins… But that’s all over now. I know the truth. Now it’s time to end this.
 
 
 
 
 

Silenthill4life

Member

Posts: 1109

Joined: Jan 04, 2015

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by Silenthill4life on Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:53 pm

SilentHells wrote:I think you're right.
I love that part where you discover the truth about his parents and his past but I think it's his father who wanted to escape - also when you play that part you can hear woman's sounds like crying (I think it's his mother crying for what she did) so I think that the real antagonist is his father - for Henry is the antagonist Walter but this is about Walter himself. So that's what I think, hope I helped ;)


Hey thanks for your perspective! I appreciate it!
 
 
 
 
 

SilentHells

Posts: 30

Joined: Jan 13, 2015

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by SilentHells on Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:58 am

Don't mention it ;)
I was weak. That’s why I needed you… Needed someone to punish me for my sins… But that’s all over now. I know the truth. Now it’s time to end this.
 
 
 
 
 

Alice.Lawlor

User avatar

Posts: 27

Joined: Feb 14, 2015

The real antagonist in SH4

Post by Alice.Lawlor on Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:21 pm

SilentHells wrote:I think you're right.
I love that part where you discover the truth about his parents and his past but I think it's his father who wanted to escape - also when you play that part you can hear woman's sounds like crying (I think it's his mother crying for what she did) so I think that the real antagonist is his father - for Henry is the antagonist Walter but this is about Walter himself. So that's what I think, hope I helped ;)


This makes sense somehow, but I think it's not only his father who plays an antagonist role in his world. The real antagonist from Walters point of view contains also society and how all these seemingly weird people react to him.

I think his dad is more like the beginning. It shows you that shit started to go down for Walter right after he was born, what means that it all started so soon, that he couldn't even do anything about beeing in his position. Only thing what happened was, that it all started to get worse and worse...

First he's abandoned, then instead of getting into loving hands at least, he was given to wish house. There he was menatlly and occasionally even physically abused. Growing up under this conditions makes bad and weird stuff with your brain. And if you remember his diary; isn't it funny how he always loses everyone nearly right after he found a person he might have trusted? No parents, his childhood friend got killed (I think his name was Bob/by ?)... he probably never found another friend after that or at least not a real one. If you are a nobody you are a shadow, you go under in society and don't feel like a part of it.
People tend to say, that rapists and murderers are often 'those to seem nice and are not outstading,also seeming to be 'normal''. I read many interpretations about the characters and what's said about Walter is, that he has this calm voice and is very tall, thus he makes the impression of beeing a 'big huggy bear' or something like that and in another interpretation (the one with the 21 sacraments resembling a tarot deck) at one point they are mentioning that Walter was maybe somewhat charismatic ( I know it had to do something with his part time job in the sports store) and seemed to be trustworthy. To quote Marilyn Manson at this point I think this sentence fits very well to him:
'I'm not man enough to be human, but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it' :)

All in all you can say that the world around him was his biggest enemy, so maybe the real antagonist is society and when not society at least his own mind, what leads us to Walter himself again...can't believe that this is a snake who bites it's own tail x'D (what did I just write?)
 
 
 
 
Previous


Return to Silent Hill 4: The Room



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests