The Conjurer [Spoilers!]

[WhiteClaudia]

Okay. I've probably played through this game nearly a hundred times on the last several years since owning this game and I still just can't seem understand this monstrosity. I'm talking about that monstrous creature (supposedly Walter) that you see in the very last battle of the game. I know its symbolism, the meaning behind it and that its referred to as "Walters true body". But what I don't understand is how? How the hell did it come to be, how it is even there, and its purpose involving the 21 Sacraments

I don't know, maybe Im missing something. I've done tons of research and just still don't understand how this thing got there or how Walter got it, or even how it's Walter in the first place. Maybe someone here can help explain or give mr some answers.

[emma]

have you seen that body hanging him self in that secret room !?...and you saw all things and weird scary stuff around it ..?!
well he did the sacrament to returning his soul as a "ghost" i guess... he suicide killed him self with a spoon in jail ...and he is the number 1121 therefor when he have to wake his soul again after his death!...to continue on his 21sacraments to have his own mother again!:) here look at this! you will understand more
http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Walter_Sullivan

[WhiteClaudia]

No. I understand all that about Walter Sullivan and the 21 Sacraments. I mean The Conjurer, that large monstrous creature that can be found at the end of the game. The thing you have to stab with the spears. I mean, I understand its symbolism as well, I'm just confused as to how the thing got there in the first place, its purpose within the rituals, and how Walter Sullivan created it.

Even more, when they call it "Walter's true body". If that thing is Walter's true body, then how the hell did it end up that way?! XD

Here's the wiki about him if anyone is confused what I'm talking about: http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Conjurer

[keeps]

I think it's the transmigrated form granted from the Holy Assumption for the purpose of completing the 21 Sacraments. It's the governing entity which projects the other Walters and his otherworld thus conjuring the ritual's modus operandi.

[emma]

or maybe its his torment soul just how the corpse of his body is already turned out something like this!?..o.o..hmmm really i know how awful it is but didn't know how to becomes something big like it !XD
the thing i wanted to ask here is why those special spears to kill it !? why not gun or something else ?!o.o..

[WhiteClaudia]

Ahhhh, those are some interesting theories. Would make sense as well.

As for the spears, I think they kind of play the same role as the swords to be used on the ghosts. Those before using them in the final battle, the spears are in stabbed into those eight statues that each stand for the last eight victims. Each statue has a bloody figure on them (probably the victims' blood). I'm guessing those are really the only things that can be used on the Conjurer to kill it. Anything else wouldn't work. The things with the victims' blood on them.

[emma]

it might be like what you said o.o. ! this one good theory!^^ thanks for clearing my mind about it!

[Devoured]

If I understand the question right, I always assumed it's just somewhat of a downside to the ritual.

To rephrase it, this is my interpretation of your question :

If Walter is supposed to be no longer bound by the flesh, just what the hell is that thing in the basement supposed to be exactly and why is it there? What good is it to Walter and the ritual if its only purpose [in physically being there at that time] seems to be dying?

IMO...like pretty much all of the game, the final battle takes place in Walter's mind and I think the conjurer needs some sort of constant, for lack of a better term. It may not be out there in the physical world, so for all intents and purposes he's free from the flesh, but in order to keep existing to fulfill the ritual, there will always need to be some core part of the conjurer someplace as something like an anchor to the physical world, to seperate him from ghosts. I mean, what else do you call someone whose 'body has died' but is still roaming around on earth? A ghost however doesn't have the freedom to do what it wants and [as SH4 also points out] folklore or whatever usually dictates that they're forever stuck in some action, whereas dying was something Walter needed to do in order to achieve what he wanted [or at least that's what he thought he was doing].

So my guess is 'the ritual' has to abide by certain rules as well and that that [somewhat] physical anchor is needed for Walter to continue his work. It's like what you said about the spears - IMO they're something like cosmic laws that prevent everybody from actually becoming omnipotent immortal god-like beings. I mean if every 22nd person on earth killed the other 21 and became some sort of demi-God, the world would be in a heap of trouble. I think when we see it it's like a baby still in the womb [the room just before that, anyone?], waiting to be 'fed' through the 21 Sacraments to fulfill its potency [birth] but it's very vulnerable until that point. So until the ritual is fulfilled, the conjurer [in this case Walter] essentially 'gives himself away' to become what it has summoned and gradually becomes...whatever [meaning Walter thinks he's resurrecting his mother, the cult and presumably the thing itself thinks it's God, to Henry it's more like a demon etc].

I don't think 'Silent Hill' really knows justice and righteousness and whatnot, but I believe it needs to maintain some kind of balance. To put it simply, SH has never acted out out of itself [in the sense of birthing 'Gods' or manifesting monsters and the like] without a dark outside influence, it's not 'evil'. So it makes sense that human intervention can [and must] in turn be used to turn such events around. It would be utterly hopeless for every protagonist of every entry in the series if that weren't true.

[keeps]

^^yeah

thinking about this is making me really want a writer for the new games to be heavily influenced by Philip K. Dick.

[NarooN]

The cadaver is strung up in a similar fashion to Walter's very own corpse in the hidden room in Room 302. I always saw it as just being one of the "projections" from the ritual. Being that it's an unholy ritual in the first place, and despite the fact that Walter was granted the ability to create his own world, he wouldn't be able to prevent things like that from happening.

[Devoured]

I'm confused - you mean prevent as in prevent unwanted / subconscious / whatever stuff from seeping through to 'his' world, so to speak?

[NarooN]

I'm confused - you mean prevent as in prevent unwanted / subconscious / whatever stuff from seeping through to 'his' world, so to speak?

Precisely.

[The_Sinful]

Well if what is said true, I believe that to be some being or entity that is trying to become a god. They said walter was possessed by valtiel (god's angel.) Now if you have played Sh3 you would know that Valtiel was the the looking to insure god was reborn. I also don't think that was walter at the end I think it was just a manifestation of who walter used to be in pure thought I think it was Valtiel.

[NarooN]

That's the first I ever heard of Walter getting possessed by Valtiel. I don't see a reason why Valtiel would do that. Walter just seemed to be himself post-ritual and didn't really show any signs of possession.

[The_Sinful]

Valtiel was to insure the rebirth of the holy mother.

[Devoured]

It's sort of vaguely termed, poorly translated probably but Rosten apparently "sneaked Valtiel into Walter's subconscience" when Walter was still a child in order to allow the 21 Sacraments to take place. I don't think this necesarily means Valtiel tagged along with Wally all that time though, I assume Valtiel just had to enter to sort of open him up or activate him or whatever. He's Valtiel's embodiment in 4 for all intents and purposes but my impression is more that Walter in some sense partly became Valtiel, like part of his essence, or instilled with part of Valtiel, but not so much actively being controlled by him like Captain Howdy.

The cult obviously had no idea what they were dealing with - the way the ritual unfolded wasn't what they expected at all and they probably figured it had gone wrong, but it was only because of Walter's condition that the whole ritual did succeed, and why it wouldn't succeed in the other 'normal' orphans. Too bad none of the poor bastards lived to find that out.

[keeps]

that makes sense

[The_Sinful]

It's sort of vaguely termed, poorly translated probably but Rosten apparently "sneaked Valtiel into Walter's subconscience" when Walter was still a child in order to allow the 21 Sacraments to take place. I don't think this necesarily means Valtiel tagged along with Wally all that time though, I assume Valtiel just had to enter to sort of open him up or activate him or whatever. He's Valtiel's embodiment in 4 for all intents and purposes but my impression is more that Walter in some sense partly became Valtiel, like part of his essence, or instilled with part of Valtiel, but not so much actively being controlled by him like Captain Howdy.

The cult obviously had no idea what they were dealing with - the way the ritual unfolded wasn't what they expected at all and they probably figured it had gone wrong, but it was only because of Walter's condition that the whole ritual did succeed, and why it wouldn't succeed in the other 'normal' orphans. Too bad none of the poor bastards lived to find that out.

I'm glad you know what I am talking about very, very few didn't even know that Valtiel was involved in the 21 Sacrements. I hope that one of the order's member will "Wake up and smell the coffee" because in their case they are messing with things beyond their control and since their so called religon is christian based and aztec based I'd call those things demons. I don't know if Valtiel has a dark demeanor about him but by the looks of things he isn't all smiles and sunshine. Had Henry not stopped walter, Walter would have killed everyone in the apartment

[The_Sinful]

I also think he could have potentially killed anyone who came near the apartment too.

[TheHWord]

I've always seen a lot of the scenes in Silent Hill as more of symbolism than anything else. The beautiful thing about the creatures is that they leave a lot of things open for interpretation.