Pyramid_Heart

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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Pyramid_Heart on Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:50 pm

This is probably gonna get my ass kicked, as I'm making some pretty big claims here...but...

This isn't going to be a really neatly arranged theory. Most of what I'm saying here probably won't be agreed with or even liked. There seems to be an issue in the fandom when it comes to Silent Hill 4's Walter Sullivan, and what he means to the franchise, specifically Silent Hill 2.

We got our first taste of Walter as an absent fourth member of the judgement call in Silent Hill 2. We see evidence of him, such as memos and a grave in the labyrinth. I believe that the ORIGINAL intention for Walter was retconned by Silent Hill 4. First, I'm going to examine his initial pre-Silent Hill 4 character.

Walter in Silent Hill 2(pre retcons).
Walter was a background/silent character introduced to help explain the narrative of what was happening, without having characters spill it directly to the protagonist. Walter existed to tell us that the town is calling/punishing certain kinds of people, and he also acted as a foreshadowing to the fact that the three main characters in part 2 were killers.

Key notes of Walter were that he was arrested before part 2, and died in prison. He also declared that he didn't do the killings, but someone he identified as the Red Devil did. Now, most of you believe that Jimmy Stone is the person responsible, but none of you actually believe Jimmy killed those children. We know Walter did, so I want to knock that out right now. Jimmy Stone is The Red Devil, but he isn't the one Walter is referring to.

Pyramid Head is *ducks*

Others see Pyramid Head. The fans hate it, but it is true. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that the executioner is an entity that inhabits the town through 'energies' and simply appeared to James and took that form because of James own self-constructed guilt traps.

Walter saw Pyramid Head. Maybe not in that exact form, but the entity that James projected as Pyramid Head is what Walter saw. In all likelyhood, it was Valtiel in a malevolent form. There are plenty of indications that Valtiel and the supernatural executioner are a yin and yang of the same entity. It relates to Metatron, Samael, and other things that I'll let Xoc explain because it confuses me. I believe it is the same entity spoken of in the Crimson Ceremony.

"Speak.
I am the Crimson One.
The lies and the mist are
not they but I.
You all know that I am One.
Yes, and the One is I.

So Walter was only there to suggest to us that there was a killer here before, his grave is filled, and he had a run-in with an evil red entity. These are presented as explanations for what James is going through, without using traditional and deliberate exposition. Walter is really the only information the game provides, in regards to what is going on.

I know most of you won't accept that, because you get too hung up in continuity bullet points, but when it comes to storytelling, this is exactly what Walter was.

Was.

I say that because Walter was expanded upon in Silent Hill 4 in ways that may defeat his depiction in the second game. While nothing of his stated history was wiped, his intentions and purpose have changed.

Walter is no longer a man pulled into the town for judgement. Walter seems to have actually become a walking spirit that was traveling through the otherworld for his own reasons, one of which was to gather the sacred items needed for his ritual(the same items James can find for 'Rebirth'). This next part is going to put people off and earn me some negative feedback, but I feel it needs to be stated.

I believe that the events of Silent Hill 2 were not random mishaps. The three were called to the town because of Walter Sullivan and the requirements of his ritual. I believe that Lost Memories would have gone into this, had it included a chapter on the fourth game. The Holy Scripture Scrap:

The Second Sign / And God said / Offer the Blood of the Ten Sinners / and the White Oil / Be then released from the bonds of / the flesh, and gain the Power of Heaven. / From the Darkness and Void, bring / forth Gloom / and gird thyself with Despair for the / Giver of Wisdom.


Walter entered the otherworld and gathered the items(I don't think they really exist in our world, or if they do, they have no inherent powers). He would end up killing himself in prison, and would continue with his ritual within the otherworld.

Also, it explains the necessity of killing the innocent Locane Twins.

Walter seemed remorseless in killing most of the people he needed. The twins were the exception. Why did Walter target them? I believe it has to do with the second sign, where it says to gird thyself with despair. Walter was a cold-blooded man that didn't mind killing, but hacking up two children would be enough to invoke sadness in him. It was necessary and was part of his ritual. So having killed the twins, Walter 'girded' himself with despair, which would eventually trigger the third sign, while Walter was in prison(and needed a way out). He blamed the "red devil" because I believe by that point, the 'crimson one' had made his presence known and Walter was blaming him. If Valtiel were in Walter's mind and he was projecting himself as a monster, then this entity probably took Walter's form and believed itself to be Walter Sullivan. I don't believe the cackling monster you encounter over and over is Walter Sullivan. I believe it to be this entity, believing itself to be Walter Sullivan, as idealized. The real Walter is most-likely the child, at this point.

The Third Sign / And God said / Return to the Source through sin’s / Temptation. / Under the Watchful eye of the demon / wander alone in the formless Chaos. / Only then will the Four Atonements / be in alignment.

To return to the source, for me, means for Walter to return to his body, sin being a metaphor for the flesh and its temptation. Under the watchful eye of the demon(valtiel or whoever else), Walter wandered alone in during the events of Silent Hill 2. His involvement in here triggered the alignment of the four atonements. The four trying to atone for their actions were James Sunderland, Angela Orosco, Eddie Dombrowski, and Walter Sullivan himself. It seems that the four of them were enough to empower some sort of baseline energy that Walter needed, akin to appeasing a god or demon. I believe Walter's ritual couldn't continue until he completed the third sign, which involves the events of Silent Hill 2.

So I conclude that Silent Hill 2 was part of the bigger picture, which explains the timeline between the two games and Walter's partially absent involvement in the second game.
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Sunchaser

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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Sunchaser on Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:31 pm

Thats a nice theory :)


He also declared that he didn't do the killings, but someone he identified as the Red Devil did. Now, most of you believe that Jimmy Stone is the person responsible, but none of you actually believe Jimmy killed those children. We know Walter did, so I want to knock that out right now. Jimmy Stone is The Red Devil, but he isn't the one Walter is referring to.

EDIT: Jimmy stone is the red devil, but i also believe walter did not see jimmy stone, otherwise he would have said 'jimmy stone' - but then again, what was the point of sient hill calling jimmy stone 'the red devil' Meh i dont know. But i gotta point this out man.

Silent hill 2 memo:
"He's trying to kill me.
He's trying to punish me. The monster... the red devil. Forgive me. I did
it
, but it wasn't me!."
Walter claims he did it but it wasnt him. Im not sure what it really means. One theory could be that: Since Jimmy stone snuck Valtiel into walters subconco to let the 21 killings take place, maybe Valtiel possesed walter, and killed the kids -for some odd reason, then walter says ''I did it, but it wasent me'' meaning valtiel did it, but it wasent me. and says ''hes trying to punish me.. the monster.. the red devil'' meaning jimmy stone is in a sense punishing him, but because it was jimmy who stuck valtiel in walter. But it wouldent explain a monster that walter says is trying to kill him. But meh

Anyways nice theory, i like the second part alot too, and where you mention about walter maybe after dying being in the otherworld and collecting items for the ritual he has planned. Nice one :)
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Pyramid_Heart

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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Pyramid_Heart on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:13 pm

I think it is due to Valtiel being in Walter's head. When he says it was him, but wasn't him...He's referring to Valtiel, which has taken a form that resembles Walter himself.

Pyramid Head was also a form of James, but James didn't project his own image onto the creature because James' memory was messed up. Walter was up front about his deeds and didn't deny any of it. I think it makes sense that he projected himself as the creature stalking him. He just knew deep down that it was the Crimson One/Xuchilbara/Valtiel that was simply masquerading in his form.

I don't believe he was referring to Jimmy Stone at the time of the second game because Stone didn't exist as a character at the time. That is why I'm analyzing Walter as he was depicted in part 2, against his depiction in the fourth game.

I think Jimmy Stone referred to himself as The Red Devil to threaten people around him, or to make himself seem cooler than he really was. The name itself, though, is a reference to Valtiel. Walter knows that Jimmy Stone is just Jimmy Stone. The Red Devil is one way of describing the entity that Jimmy placed in Walter's adolescent mind. If someone put something in your head that started whispering for you to kill certain people, you'd probably identify it as a devil, too.
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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Sunchaser on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:19 pm

^ I agree 100% with you on that. Good stuff man ^_^
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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Pyramid_Heart on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:25 pm

Glad you like it! I've had this stirring around in my head for over a year...

Walter Sullivan's purpose in part 2 was to provide exposition and give an explanation as to what was happening to James. instead of the game flat out telling you, it provides memos that describe a similar scenario happening to a man named Walter Sullivan, that the game eventually clarifies as a murderer.

It mirrors James and was provided to give context to Pyramid Head and the story in part 2.

As a matter of fact, I referred to Pyramid Head as "The Red Devil" before I joined the community, because of that information and suggestion in the second game.

Origins does something similar with the Butcher. The costumer at the theatre saw the Butcher and went crazy over it. One of the little dolls in the pill puzzle is apparently the costumer, as he has a seamster's dummy in his cell and a renaissance costume. I think he went crazy over the Butcher, and it is linked to Alessa's resentment of the costumes created in the play. I know Origins isn't as discussed by the fans, but it is a similar scenario as Walter in part 2. But that's another topic.
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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by EllDawn on Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:20 am

Interesting theory. I never did play through the second game, but have read a few things about it including the article about Walter. To me what he says about it being him, but not him that committed the murders means he was being controlled. He was conscious of what was going on without being able to stop himself. The Red Devil could be Valtiel or Jimmy Stone. I know the reason why he was called the red devil is because of his cruelty and the red robes he would wear during rituals and torture. Who knows, maybe he was referring to both. The monster could be Valtiel while the one trying to punish him is stone. He might have combined the two in his mind. With how tortured he seems in the article, it could be possible. Especially with Stone's involvement in why Valtiel became a part of Walter.

That's just my idea of what a couple things could mean. Now I'm probably going to read the article again and analyze it some more.

EDIT: There's something else I forgot. Where he says, "He's trying to kill me. He's trying to punish me." He could have been meaning that Valtiel was trying to destroy who he was, kill his spirit. Obviously a physical death doesn't mean much in SH. And since Valtiel needed him, physically killing him would be pointless. If you want to go with Valtiel being the red devil, he could have been punishing Walter for possibly trying to fight him in the beginning. Or because a part of Walter actually wanted to kill the kids and Valtiel was punishing him for that desire or any other from before.

I'm going to stop there before I find myself staying up all night just to analyze Walter some more.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by JaneTheNurse on Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:55 am

Sounds cool to me. Stitches stuff up nicely.
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Post by ERROR on Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:56 pm

>I believe it is the same entity spoken of in the Crimson Ceremony.<
The Crimson One is more likely Xuchipaba, the god itself. People like to say Xuchilbara and Xuchilpaba are the same thing—naturally, they blame it on a "translation error"—but there wasn't a translation error. They are separate beings
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.
 
 
 
 
 

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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Sunchaser on Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:41 pm

ERROR wrote:>I believe it is the same entity spoken of in the Crimson Ceremony.<
The Crimson One is more likely Xuchipaba, the god itself. People like to say Xuchilbara and Xuchilpaba are the same thing—naturally, they blame it on a "translation error"—but there wasn't a translation error. They are separate beings
I agree that the crimson one is Xuchilpaba. Theorys that it is Valtiel i will address at a different time.

But for now i just want to bring something up. Its more likely that Xuchilpaba and Xuchilbara are the same thing. To the old natives, the only 'old' god seems to be Xuchilpaba. The natives worshiped this being for its connection to raising the dead/rebirth, in which the natives ''wept in fear and joy'' at this. Valtiel is the only being known that has this power. And no alessa did not either. When alessa 'rebirthed' herself (in Origins), she did not do it - the demon did. (i will go into this anothetime, in a video)

Valtiel could likely be Xuchilpaba, a god or deity known for the powers of rebirth.

The cult, over the ages, has rewritten things. Copyed books worth safegarding, ect. And the paitings in the chapel 'i heard' were made basied upon claudia's power known as 'her sight' - a sight which got the events of the first game wrong.The cult, over time, could have simply misspelled the name of xuchilpaba, and spelled it as xuchilbara, this seems more likely to me, than them being both seperate. I would still love to hear an alternate theory tho.

The cult never worshipped Xuchilpaba as its main deity, it was never mentioned in origins or silent hill 1. The cult worships a god that may have never shown appearence in any silent hill games yet. The god in silent hill 3 is not god, its the demon from silent hill 1, incubus.

Lost memories in silent hill 2 born from a wish - ''My faith in the salvation of Xuchilpaba did not waver''
Claudia - ''We all need Gods salvation''
While this may point the finger at Xuchilpaba being one that brings salvation, in myth, then the chapel paintings show that the cult worships 'God' as its deity, not Xuchilpaba. Xuchilbara is worshipped as a being created by god.

Over the ages in silent hill, it seems things simply got twisted.

I know this may not be agreed with, but i will go over this in videos when i correct all the mistakes Twinperfect made.

And with that note, i was wondering MMY if i could take i look at your mary stayed at brookhaven theory and your baldwin hospital director one. And with your blessing, stating this is a theory a member of the silent hil community know as 'Adversary' or a name you choose: ''and this is what he had to say'', then present your evidence in one of the videos, along with anything else towards your theory i can find, because i too belive mary stayed at brookhaven. And while i do not share hate towards them, what they say is not solid fact, and i belive things they have missed out.
Last edited by Sunchaser on Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:00 pm.
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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Xuchilbara on Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:00 pm

I think they are the same deities. The differing but similar names can be explained in a few manners, including translations errors to epithets and aspects of the same deity.

In any case, I also don't believe Xuchilpaba is "the god of the town". The memo in 3 that speaks of human sacrifice rituals of the natives in the hospital is referring to the main God of the cult. Also, if you believe Xuchilpaba or Xuchilbara is Valtiel, key word "el" the Hebrew name for God and what is applied similar to God in Silent Hill, then you admit that this deity is submitting to God.
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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Sunchaser on Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:07 pm

Xuchilbara wrote: Also, if you believe Xuchilpaba or Xuchilbara is Valtiel, key word "el" the Hebrew name for God and what is applied similar to God in Silent Hill, then you admit that this deity is submitting to God.
That is a great point, and i think you are right, and i belive Valtiel is submitting to something The ideas of what people think god is. I will address all this in videos.

But i might have misunderstood your point, what do you mean Xu? It would be cool for us all to bring us up in another thread maybe, i want to include other theorys and peoples opinions in these videos i'l make, so we get to hear what alot of fans think.
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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Xuchilbara on Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:12 pm

Sunchaser wrote:
But i might have misunderstood your point, what do you mean Xu? It would be cool for us all to bring us up in another thread maybe, i want to include other theorys and peoples opinions in these videos i'l make, so we get to hear what alot of fans think.



Uh, that question is confusing me. I don't know which Xu you're talking about or which point I brought up. Nonetheless, there was a thread along time ago about it. But I think it would be better if another thread that was fresh was made.
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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by Pain on Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:41 pm

Love the theory, i find it amazing how fans of the series dig that much deeper than the creators themselves and create an a whole other thesis on the goings on in Silent Hill.
Ideally given how the fan base of Silent Hill still thrives, i personally feel that the creators should stop 'thinking' that they know what the fans want, instead of actually taking in some ideas from us.

Back on topic: (sorry)
I loved finding memo's in Silent Hill games, and i love playing the next release and finding out that something i found in the previous game has a link to that game, like the Alessa files you find playing as Heather in Silent Hill 3.

I don't know as much as most of you who have replied to the OP, about this specific topic but i loved the whole 'Water Sullivan' story in Silent Hill 4.
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Exploring Walter Sullivan and Silent Hill 2

Post by colbent on Sun May 27, 2012 6:58 pm

Pyramid_Heart wrote:Walter saw Pyramid Head. Maybe not in that exact form, but the entity that James projected as Pyramid Head is what Walter saw. In all likelyhood, it was Valtiel in a malevolent form. There are plenty of indications that Valtiel and the supernatural executioner are a yin and yang of the same entity. It relates to Metatron, Samael, and other things that I'll let Xoc explain because it confuses me. I believe it is the same entity spoken of in the Crimson Ceremony.


If you're talking about Walter and why he could theoretically see Pyramid Head using only information that existed up until SH2, what would that have to to with Valtiel? He was introduced in SH3. And the reason he has anything to do with Walter is because of SH4.

I think the remark about the "red devil" was supposed to foreshadow Pyramid Head's appearance in the game, but not actually be a reference to him in particular. I think that Walter in SH2 was just supposed to be an insane murderer. I mean, he killed two kids, and was saying that he did it, but it wasn't him. What could that remark mean, other than simply that Walter is a crazy guy saying crazy stuff? There's nothing in the game (specifically about Walter) to suggest more than that. The person interviewed in the article also describes Walter as "kind of crazy."

Also he refers to "the red devil" as a person, saying "he's trying to kill me." I know he actually calls him a monster, but I think it's more in the way that you would refer to a horrible person as a monster, since Walter says "he." James never says "he." Whenever James talks about Pyramid Head, he always refers to it as a thing, "Red Pyramid Thing," "that thing, it stabbed you," "it chased us to the elevator." So he sees it as a monster, not a person and not something he would refer to as a "he." I guess it's debatable whether or not most people would refer to Pyramid Head as a "he," but in-game, the only person who is 100% confirmed to have seen Pyramid Head and talks about it is James, and he says "thing."

I think his grave being there along with the other characters' is James' mind's way of equating himself and these people that he's met who are clearly guilty of something with this confirmed murderer.
 
 
 
 


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