The22sacrament

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by The22sacrament on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:38 am

1: the leave ending happened. James klled mary so he went into hiding so the popo wont catch him. which is why they said james and mary disappeared.

2: (this kinda ties w/ the first theory)
SH2 never happened. SH4 said that they disappeared the first time they went to SH. it said nothing about them coming back.
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R08813

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by R08813 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:51 am

James and Mary's disappearance allows any of the four endings to be canon. It doesn't help you conclude that Leave is the only canon ending.
 
 
 
 
 
 

what

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by what on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:15 am

As many times as I've seen this brought up over the years, this is the first time it hasn't been to claim that the In Water ending is canon. It's novel for that reason alone.
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Venithil

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by Venithil on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:07 am

REVEAL SPOILER
Don't the locations with water in SH4 prove that In Water is canon? As well as the puddles of water in the apartments and PH going into water and the alternate hotel being drowned, and Walter Sullivan grave was in SH2 and since Eddie Angela and Walter are all dead and have their graves in SH2 wouldn't the fact that James has his grave in SH2 make him dead too?
I also thought that the fact that there is so much water in Downpour also proves that In Water ending is canon


Damn it, I didn't think I was so jaded from just seeing some of the above on the Internet once. I guess I should write "cannon" instead, however.

As said, any SH2 ending can effectively lead to James disappearing for different purposes and out of different reasons.

One thing is certain, going back to his old life was just too risky to attempt any form of communication if he survived (assuming he was capable of such communication at all) - which he has about 75% of doing. (Surviving, that is)
 
 
 
 
 
 

TraceBASS

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by TraceBASS on Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:53 am

Any of the endings can be canon. That is how they were made.
You have some good theories there.
I don't get mad; I get even - which isn't normal, for someone as odd as me.

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firecrest

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by firecrest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:42 pm

I'm not sure I understand. How can Leave ending happen if your second theory is that Silent Hill 2 never happened?
 
 
 
 
 
 

ERROR

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Post by ERROR on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:04 pm

> As well as the puddles of water in the apartments<
By this logic, Leave ending is canon because of all the EXIT signs in the apartments.
. . . AND THAT'S THAT.
 
 
 
 
 

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by TraceBASS on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:13 pm

@firecrest
The22sacrament is giving two DIFFERENT theories. They aren't within the same space of existence. He says either the Leave ending could have happened, or the events in Silent Hill 2 never happened, it was just all part of James' delusion, like the 'Bad' ending in Silent Hill - according to information given in Silent Hill 4: The Room in relation to the relation between the two games in the larger storyline of the series, as a whole.
I don't get mad; I get even - which isn't normal, for someone as odd as me.

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Venithil

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by Venithil on Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:16 pm

ERROR wrote:> As well as the puddles of water in the apartments<
By this logic, Leave ending is canon because of all the EXIT signs in the apartments.

I just quoted a few things off the internet with guys arguing why In Water is "canon" (actually, they most often referenced it as "cannon", i don't know, maybe it is a cannon), with one guy basically arguing that large amounts of water in some places during SH2 point to the In Water ending...

I thought it was obvious I'm being sarcastic. But, it doesn't carry well over the internet, so I'm not completely sure if you did or did not recognize it.
 
 
 
 
 
 

what

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by what on Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:25 pm

I think he was simply addressing the absurdity of the point itself. It's clear by the rest of your post that it's not your personal opinion.
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firecrest

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by firecrest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:58 pm

Metal Man wrote:@firecrest
The22sacrament is giving two DIFFERENT theories. They aren't within the same space of existence. He says either the Leave ending could have happened, or the events in Silent Hill 2 never happened,

Thanks, I guess that kind of makes sense, but The22sacrament originally said this:

The22sacrament wrote:2: (this kinda ties w/ the first theory)
SH2 never happened.

So, I thought he meant there was a connection.
 
 
 
 
 
 

NarooN

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by NarooN on Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:23 am

James' jacket is green, so UFO is canon.
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The22sacrament

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by The22sacrament on Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:59 am

firecrest wrote:
Metal Man wrote:@firecrest
The22sacrament is giving two DIFFERENT theories. They aren't within the same space of existence. He says either the Leave ending could have happened, or the events in Silent Hill 2 never happened,

Thanks, I guess that kind of makes sense, but The22sacrament originally said this:

The22sacrament wrote:2: (this kinda ties w/ the first theory)
SH2 never happened.

So, I thought he meant there was a connection.

i meant that James just went into hiding, never going through all that crap.

@NarooN: that is the same thing as saying that the fog is white-ish so is thw milky fluid that means the revival ending is canon.
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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by TraceBASS on Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:39 am

NarooN wrote:James' jacket is green, so UFO is canon.


NarooN! You did it wrong! If his jacket was blue, then it'd be canon. ;)
I don't get mad; I get even - which isn't normal, for someone as odd as me.

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by NarooN on Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:33 am

Lmao!

What's that? Maria's clothing is mostly red? SILENT HILL ORIGINS BUTCHER ENDING CANON
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Kyle Purrenhage

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Post by Kyle Purrenhage on Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:06 pm

Still not sure why people have a gripe about endings that are canon and not canon. I thought a lot of it was open to interpretation anyway. I can't really make a clear judgement about what is canon or not, myself... I just thought that the ending where he leaves with Laura was a good enough ending, and the reason why is if Mary liked Laura so much (and was indeed intent on adopting her if she could have); then wouldn't she have wanted it that way, as in for James to find Laura?

Something that I had to think about also is how a lot of literature in Japan can be very vague. Sometimes you can't come to one concrete conclusion about things. Some stories and films would end in such a vague and ambiguious way that you could literally say whatever you wanted about the ending being such-and-such and still not even be close. Or it was intended to be vague so that it would leave your mind to wander. Just think about the language itself; Japanese is quite a vague language and can be translated in multiple ways. Sometimes there is no one way to translate something. Languages can tell you a lot about the people in certain cultures, and so I think to clearly analyze things about this game you have to take culture/language into consideration. The game itself is like a language!
 
 
 
 
 
 

Venithil

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by Venithil on Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:43 pm

Kyle Purrenhage wrote:Still not sure why people have a gripe about endings that are canon and not canon. I thought a lot of it was open to interpretation anyway. I can't really make a clear judgement about what is canon or not, myself... I just thought that the ending where he leaves with Laura was a good enough ending, and the reason why is if Mary liked Laura so much (and was indeed intent on adopting her if she could have); then wouldn't she have wanted it that way, as in for James to find Laura?

Something that I had to think about also is how a lot of literature in Japan can be very vague. Sometimes you can't come to one concrete conclusion about things. Some stories and films would end in such a vague and ambiguious way that you could literally say whatever you wanted about the ending being such-and-such and still not even be close. Or it was intended to be vague so that it would leave your mind to wander. Just think about the language itself; Japanese is quite a vague language and can be translated in multiple ways. Sometimes there is no one way to translate something. Languages can tell you a lot about the people in certain cultures, and so I think to clearly analyze things about this game you have to take culture/language into consideration. The game itself is like a language!

A good post, and if I were to answer some points, then indeed - most of the games have endings that are open to interpretation. However, for some reason, many people need to discuss which ending in their view suits the story most or was the most likely to happen.

For an even weirder reason, some people have to choose an ending that is "better, superior and the only TRUE ending" and then push this view right into everyone else's guts.
The canon and truly canon ending are as follows:
SH1 : Good
SH2: Any non-joke
SH3 : Any non-joke
SH4 : Any except 21 sacraments
Origins: Any non-joke.
Shattered Memories: Any or All
Homecoming: No idea, never played it, but probably any as well.

The "cannon" endings as the brightest mind of the Internet put it, meaning those endings that something of a majority of players or large groups of players consider TEH MOST LAYKLY TO HAS HAPPENT, or bigger groups of players feel the need to push onto others, are :

SH1 : Good+. The main instinct of everyone sane when someone is shooting at you is to throw unidentified objects at them. (Don't know how likely you are on your first playthrough to do this... I'm ashamed to have played SH1 but never finished)
SH2 : In Water. When you lose two exact same looking chicks and go through a misty city with occasional psychopats and watery places, you have a 99.99% chance of drowning yourself. Don't fight it.
SH3 : Normal. If you reincarnate twice, there is no chance in the World that you're going to have personality problems or go insane, especially if your first incarnation was tortured for all its life.
SH4 : Escape. Ahhh, so romantic.(Again, played but not finished)
Origins: The best point of Origins is that nobody tried to shove any endings. (As above)
Shattered Memories: As above, or at least I never saw such attempts. (I finished the game)
Homecoming: I never played SH:H so I don't participate in such discussions.
Downpour: In WATER!!!!!!! Alternatively, In Barbie :mrgreen:

And I actually like vague or not-entirely-happy endings. They allow my imagination to work better.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Augophthalmoses

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by Augophthalmoses on Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:08 pm

You can eliminate "Possessed" from SH3 since Homecoming shows us Douglas was still alive after the events of SH3 and that only happens in the "Normal" ending.

Travis also makes a small cameo in the beginning of Homecoming dropping Alex off in Shepherd's Glen (albeit aged since Homecoming takes place quite a while after Origins) so it's safe to say the good ending of Origins is the canon one.
boo
 
 
 
 
 

Venithil

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by Venithil on Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:14 pm

Verisimilitudo wrote:You can eliminate "Possessed" from SH3 since Homecoming shows us Douglas was still alive after the events of SH3 and that only happens in the "Normal" ending.

Travis also makes a small cameo in the beginning of Homecoming dropping Alex off in Shepherd's Glen (albeit aged since Homecoming takes place quite a while after Origins) so it's safe to say the good ending of Origins is the canon one.


I didn't know Douglas was ever after shown alive, but I guess that really DOES make the possessed ending explicitely non-canon.

However, in Travis' case, the bad ending doesn't kill him, and neither it is explicitely shown that he changes into a monster. I also believe Homecoming has an ending where everything was just a hallucination/delusion, so there really is no canon ending for Origins.
 
 
 
 
 
 

The22sacrament

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2 theories about the SH2 reference [sh2 spoilers]

Post by The22sacrament on Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:29 pm

Venithil wrote:
Verisimilitudo wrote:You can eliminate "Possessed" from SH3 since Homecoming shows us Douglas was still alive after the events of SH3 and that only happens in the "Normal" ending.

Travis also makes a small cameo in the beginning of Homecoming dropping Alex off in Shepherd's Glen (albeit aged since Homecoming takes place quite a while after Origins) so it's safe to say the good ending of Origins is the canon one.


I didn't know Douglas was ever after shown alive, but I guess that really DOES make the possessed ending explicitely non-canon.

However, in Travis' case, the bad ending doesn't kill him, and neither it is explicitely shown that he changes into a monster. I also believe Homecoming has an ending where everything was just a hallucination/delusion, so there really is no canon ending for Origins.

Then that would also mean there is no canon ending for SH3. I was starting to believe that Homecoming was taking place during Origins because the fact that Travis was STILL a trucker, wearing the same clothes and the fact that he was almost killed several times in silent hill that i doubt that he would still be driving through there, but he does look older so IDK.
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