Royal Fizzbin

Member

User avatar

living that lie

Posts: 50

Joined: Oct 21, 2015

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Royal Fizzbin on Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:50 pm

Possible spoilers ahead.

Vincent seemed like an operator for his own agenda. He would from a distance pull strings and manipulate people to achieve his ends. He led Heather down a path with the goal of having her kill Claudia (and prevent the birth of god). But what about Heather? If she had killed Claudia, what then was Vincent’s gameplan for killing Heather? Would he have done it himself or did he have something else in mind?

Any thoughts?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

Moderator

User avatar

The Red God

Posts: 8728

Joined: Feb 21, 2006

Location: United States

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Xuchilbara on Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:09 pm

I am not sure Vincent believed Heather was actually the Mother of God considering his criticism of the religion. Perhaps he thought similarly to Douglas; killing Heather would end that nightmare.
WHY NOT ZOIDBERG? (V)(;,,,;)(V)
 
 
 
 
 

LisaGarland

User avatar

Posts: 24

Joined: May 16, 2017

Location: United Kingdom

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by LisaGarland on Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:47 am

Well, we know Vincent was part of the cult - but how much of it he actually believed is never shown.
He was clearly in it, for the most part, for the money he got from donations etc from the followers.

He does tell Heather that he does indeed believe in the God, but admits it wouldn't suit his needs (money)
If the God was born - he would lose out..

"It's true. We believe in the same God. But I'm quite sane."
"It's not uncommon for people to believe in the same God and still disagree."
"I don't want God to be born. Wouldn't be convenient. Much too unpredictable."

I believe that at the beginning, he probably wanted Heather dead (remember the photo - Holy One, Kill her?)
Why add the question mark.. he is clearly unsure of what to do.

During the course of the game, Vincent presumably realises that he can have Heather do the dirty work for him - also, this is backed up in cutscenes.

"So you've been using me to stop Claudia. Is that it? Do your own dirty work!"
"I don't have powers like you two. Besides, I always hated getting all hot and sweaty"

In all honestly - I felt saddened at what happened to him in the end.. he was kinda neutral, neither a villain or a hero.
"I won't tell a soul. Promise. So please...."
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6647

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Otherworld on Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:32 am

In one fashion or another Vincent had learned that running the church had become a lucrative venture, and that was Vincent's end game. Trying to turn a profit. The birth of God would have obviously gotten in the way.

And because Claudia's ideology was another barrier to attaining that wealth through running the church, he had no problem with her being removed from the equation as well.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

Moderator

User avatar

The Red God

Posts: 8728

Joined: Feb 21, 2006

Location: United States

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Xuchilbara on Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:32 pm

He also doubts that the 'God' in 3 is actually God itself. This is revealed at the end of the game, so it simply is not "I want more money". That might be what he told Heather, but his angry lines to Claudia tell a different story.

"If this truly is the work of God, I'd say she has lousy tastes."

"Isn't this nothing more than your own personal nightmare just like Alessa 17 years ago!?"

"Heather, go ahead and kill this demon who claims to speak for God."

Prior to this, he said he believed in God, but clearly, it's not Claudia's version of God.

Vincent isn't black and white character. He may be selfish, and he definitely loved money, however, he was not delusional about God in such a manner that Claudia is. Nor is he portrayed as delusional, at any time, in the game. (Or out game.) Rather it is clear, that he has been researching the Alessa incident prior to the game events and that he came to the conclusion during the course of the game, eventually, that neither Heather nor Alessa were the 'Mother of God', rather they were living their own personal nightmares or in the case of 3, Claudia's personal nightmare. (Seems to be a mix of Heather/Claudia's nightmare here.) This is a significant development, because it means Vincent is a guide since he already has an idea about what is truly going on.
WHY NOT ZOIDBERG? (V)(;,,,;)(V)
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6647

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Otherworld on Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Vincent is a priest, and through the tapes we hear he has done his own research about what is truly going on with this faith and God.

He is one of the craftiest characters in the Silent Hill series and almost gets away with his plan. I guess he never counted on Claudia actually killing him though .....
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Royal Fizzbin

Member

User avatar

living that lie

Posts: 50

Joined: Oct 21, 2015

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Royal Fizzbin on Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:05 pm

Wow, thanks for the thoughts everyone.

Vincent strikes me as the most interesting character in SH3. Almost a Judas element to his character, willing to betray the savior of his faith for money and power.

It’s possible he doesn’t see Heather as the Mother of God as suggested, but if that were the case then why would he want her dead along with Claudia… if not to prevent the birth of God? Early on he tells Heather that he knows all about her past, later he tells her that he doesn’t have powers like her and Claudia. Plus it stands to reason that if he was familiar with the events of Alessa 17 years prior, that he would understand Claudia’s masterstroke in killing Harry and baiting Heather the way she did to facilitate the birth of God. And if Vincent didn’t think that Claudia’s plan could work and actually give birth to God then it doesn’t seem likely that he would have sent Heather on the fetch quest to get the seal from Leonard. It seems that was very important to him because he thought it could prevent Claudia’s plan for God’s birth.

Also it seems likely that at the end of the game he still plans to kill Heather, as he plainly tells Claudia that he wants the two of them dead just prior to Heather entering the alter room. It’s obvious he wants Heather to kill Claudia, but what is less clear is how he then planed to dispose of Heather. Could it be possible that once Heather killed Claudia and Claudia’s nightmare faded that Vincent would have used his power in the church to label Heather a heretic for killing “sister Claudia” and have the members under his sway go after her? Nothing in the game indicates this, it’s just an idea.

It’s also interesting that Vincent seems fully aware of the otherworld, even crediting Claudia for its visuals, but he personally never seems to be in any danger. He isn’t threatened by it or the monsters that we ever actually see nor is it implied that he is in any danger. He doesn’t carry any visible weapons for self defense from monsters nor did he appear to have any even during his final confrontation with Claudia at the end. Why did the otherworld seem to leave Vincent alone? He certainly wasn’t an innocent like Laura in SH2.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6647

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Otherworld on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:56 am

Royal Fizzbin wrote:Why did the otherworld seem to leave Vincent alone? He certainly wasn’t an innocent like Laura in SH2.


The otherworld in Silent Hill 3 cannot be compared to the otherworld in Silent Hill 2. I break the differences down in another thread I created.

See below:
http://silenthillcommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=437183&p=7667313&hilit=the+main#p7667313

Otherworld wrote:We have seen many different versions of what we have come to know as "the otherworld". This is because the main component ( the towns power alone or another person with unique abilities that can manipulate the towns power ) changes in each instalment.

BoLM quotes:

The main constituent of the otherworld differs in each work of the series:

The power of Silent Hill absorbs what people hold in their hearts and manifests delusions and elements of their subconscious minds. And so, the truth is that the consciousness that becomes the main constituent of what is called the "otherworld" varies. As a few different incarnations of the otherworld have been presented up to this point in the series, let us ascertain the differences in each of these respective works.


Embody
The materialization of the darkness that sleeps in peoples' hearts.

In the town of Silent Hill, a power exists that gives discernable form to peoples' innermost thoughts. As for the otherworld that appears in the series, the town is not merely showing the characters their nightmares, but actually manifesting elements of their unconscious minds.

Calling
Those who have guilt are summoned.

Due to the appearance of the otherworld on a massive scale in the first game, the town has come to be a place that calls those who hold a profound darkness in their hearts. It seems that people with afflicted minds are easily drawn to the otherworld.

Link
Transcending time, minds are connected.

It would seem that in the otherworld, time and physical limitations are transcended and peoples' thoughts are communicated. In accordance with this are the enigmatic phone conversation and Stanley's letters in the third game, as well the director's letters, among other things, in the second game.


Silent Hill
Due to her severe burns and endless suffering, Alessa's power runs wild. Her agony is manifested and the entire town is swallowed up by the otherworld. Harry searches for his daughter in the otherworld.


In the first game, it is Alessa that is completely responsible for the look of the otherworld including all of the monsters. She, and the power that already resides in the area are both the main constituent of the otherworld in the first instalment as Alessa was very powerful herself.

Image

BoLM quotes:

Silent Hill 2
Regarding James, who escapes from the crime that he has committed, elements from the depths of his consciousness are manifested. What the power of the town causes to appear before him is an otherworld that is a combination of his delusions and his desire for punishment.


The power that the town holds has intensified greatly. It has reached the point that those who hold darkness in their hearts are called to gather, and each of their unconscious minds is manifested.

Image
In the otherworld of Silent Hill, the world is seen differently depending on the person.


In the second instalment, there is no other pact or person with unique abilities that can manipulate the towns power. What we see is the power of Silent Hill absorb what James holds in his heart and manifests his delusions and elements of his subconscious mind. This happens due to the large-scale shift to the otherworld that occurred in the first game. The town has become a great catalyst for the manifestation of peoples' unconscious minds. It appears to have become a place that beckons to those who hold darkness in their hearts.

The BoLM is very specific about the main constituent of the otherworld in Silent Hill 2 "Regarding James" because it is James himself that is the main component of the otherworld in the second instalment.

BoLM quotes:

Silent Hill 3
The shift to the otherworld that occurs in the shopping mall, among other places, has to do with Claudia. As she recovers her memories, Alessa's influence grows stronger.


Claudia possesses a unique power.


In the third instalment, it is Claudia that is completely responsible for the look of the otherworld in the mall.

Image

This includes all of the monsters. This also happens during the rooftop Missionary boss battle. Claudia and Alessa/Heather's power are both the main constituent of the otherworld.

As far as 4, Origins and Homecoming are concerned. They all share the same theme as 1 and 3. There is another entity and/or pact that is the main constituent of the otherworld. Not just the town itself.



The only other instalment that is very specific as far as main constituent of the otherworld is concerned is Downpour.

In Downpour there is no other pact or person with unique abilities that can manipulate the towns power. What we see is the power of Silent Hill absorb what both Murphy and Anne hold in their hearts and manifest their delusions and elements of their subconscious minds. Each of their unconscious minds is manifested.

Image
In the otherworld of Silent Hill, the world is seen differently depending on the person
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

Moderator

User avatar

The Red God

Posts: 8728

Joined: Feb 21, 2006

Location: United States

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Xuchilbara on Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:19 pm

I don't think Vincent is immune to the hostility of the other world.
WHY NOT ZOIDBERG? (V)(;,,,;)(V)
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6647

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Otherworld on Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:00 pm

Parvatii wrote:I don't think Vincent is immune to the hostility of the other world.


He may not be, but he doesn't seem to be worried about his safety ....

I guess this all stems back to Claudia being the main constituent of the otherworld in 3.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Royal Fizzbin

Member

User avatar

living that lie

Posts: 50

Joined: Oct 21, 2015

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Royal Fizzbin on Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:21 pm

It might very well go back to Claudia. One way of understanding Vincent and his presence was that Claudia might have needed him as a ritual sacrifice for the birth of God. If true, it helps explain his relative safety in the otherworld of her construct up until the time she needed his blood on the alter, which likely was the alter room in the church.
Last edited by Royal Fizzbin on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:10 pm.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6647

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

What was Vincent’s game plan?

Post by Otherworld on Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:55 pm

One way or another it seems that his relative safety is attributed to the fact that Claudia needed Vincent around.
Image
 
 
 


Return to Silent Hill 3



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest