Naroon

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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Naroon on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:33 pm

People don't really talk about SH3 much these days, but everyone remembers this line and I'm sure it's been discussed to hell & back since the game's debut anyway. I recently went through the game again for no reason and did some thinking when I got to that part.

A lot of people brush the line off as Vincent merely joking, or being "weird" like he always is, but I actually think it's deeper than that. I think the "monsters" are all mostly cult members, or more specifically, Claudia's followers, appearing the way they do to Heather either by Alessa's or Claudia's influence. The Missionary boss is literally just that, a cult member who is under Claudia's control. It seems that Claudia has the power to manipulate people's hearts and wills, if they are susceptible to easily being swayed.

Things not always being what they seem is a common theme that's in pretty much every game in the series. I think when Heather called them monsters, that Vincent was legitimately shocked that they appeared that way to her. Him trying to brush it off as a joke seemed more like damage control to me more than anything. He's the type of guy to do that, especially since the only reason he's "helping" Heather is for his own benefit (the prospect of putting himself in harm's way scares him, so he uses Heather to do all the dirty work instead). He'd try to make it seem like he was joking so Heather could keep her morale up and continue on with the mission.

But given that this could be true, the creatures are a bit odd then... The pendulums would be cult members with jetpacks, and the closers would be really tall ex-fashion models or something. But seeing how distorted the Missionary was, it's possible that the rest of them suffered the same distortion by the Otherworld.

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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by CrazyCatLady on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:59 pm

Exactly. You probably remember my old sig which featured this wonderful quote. It's probably one of my favorites from the whole series. I don't believe that it was just Vincent's dark sense of humor, but something much deeper than that. This could show that Vincent did in fact know a lot more than what was let on (which I find pretty obvious). This quote was really a mind-fuck. It sunk into the players mind even after the cutscene was over, and made you sit there for a few seconds thinking, "What the fuck?" It messed with your mind and maybe disturbed some people too.

What if the monsters WERE actually human beings, and the Fog/Otherworld was morphing them into the manifestations from the persons mind and subconscious. As it's stated, the Nurses were manifested from Alessa's stay at the hospital. The Puppet Doctors were manifested from her fear of adults, and the dogs were manifested from her fear of large dogs, and how fierce she thought they were. Maybe they were more than just "creatures manifested from her mind", but they were actually human's morphed into the manifestations. Silent Hill projects those emotions and fears from the Real World (in a way) into the Fog/Otherworld, for only the person in question to see. If any of that makes sense.

As you stated, the Missionary for example, was a cult member in the Order, and he was manifested into that grotesque monster to do Claudia's bidding. Then there's Leonard Wolf. He was manifested (from Claudia's mind) into that giant creature which projected all the pain and suffering she endured from him while growing up. Vincent makes this clear while talking to her in Jack's Inn. If it was the case for the Missionary and Leonard (who was another cult follower), who says it's not for the others? Maybe that's why Vincent says it.

I actually laughed at your mention of the Pendulums being cult members with JetPacks. :lol: :lol: Oh Gosh, would I have loved to see that one. But then the Slurpers. Does that mean they're cult members crawling around on the ground, knocking her over and doing strange strange things to her while down there? :lol:

This also brings up another question, if they are cult members, why are they trying to kill her? If they are there to see the birth (as Claudia puts it), they obviously would want the ritual to happen and not interfere. Maybe there's another motive involved here?
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Naroon on Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:21 pm

Yeah, I thought about them trying to kill her too. That's definitely odd, but I guess if they weren't trying to kill her, we wouldn't have a game : p. The game itself makes a reference to this, though. In the church at the end, you see Valtiel torturing a nurse (who isn't Lisa, it's a different one, looks similar to one of the normal ones). As we know, Valtiel is basically protecting Heather in a sense, and it'd make sense for him to eliminate a threat off-screen or something like that. Maybe this nurse was naughty and tried to sneak out of the hospital to come and assassinate Heather in the church, and Valtiel found her out!

Also, about the jetpacks, I was actually gonna make a short machinima video in Garry's Mod a couple years back based on that, just for the lulz. Might do it after I upgrade my PC soon, lol.
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by CrazyCatLady on Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:36 pm

:o :o :o WHAT IF! The monsters are not just monsters or humans, but THE GREYS!!! The UFO Endings ARE REAL! VINCENT KNOWS! It would explain why he says that. :lol: :lol: They use Jetpacks too. :P
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by captain crowbar on Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:40 pm

What is Leonard exactly? I never understood if he was mutated, a construct of Silent Hill, or what...
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by CrazyCatLady on Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:49 pm

He was much like the Missionary in this. His appearance was "mutated" in the Fog/Otherworld into the manifestation of Claudia "saw" him. Vincent explains that he abused Claudia while raising her and that it emotionally and [probably] mentally scarred her. She viewed him almost as a monster. So his appearance was manifested into that of how Claudia viewed him. Kind of like Murphy to Anne, or Frank to Anne. Of course, that's not how he really looks, that's just how the Otherworld has manifested him (from Claudia's mind and probably Alessa's, if she was a witness to what he did). Kind of hard to explain, maybe Naroon can explain it better. :lol:
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Naroon on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:26 pm

Yeah, in SH3, Claudia also has an influence on how things appear in the Otherworld (she did summon it out of town, after all). Leonard's abuse towards Claudia was well-known even within the cult community, so the fact that no one did anything to help her didn't exactly do any good for Claudia's psyche and mental outlook on the world. She hated her father for the way he treated her, and thus Leonard looks the way he does when Heather gets to him. Still odd how he wades through the water like that. Must've been a good athlete or something :lol:.

So in other words, Leonard is real and definitely not just a construct of the town. He also probably looked like that willingly due to his supreme elitist demeanor, like how he announces himself as the protector of the seal and whatnot. He's crazy enough to not even care about this.
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by clips7 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:53 am

I too have thought about why the monsters tried to kill her throughout the game. I know for a fact that Claudia doesn't want to kill Heather either, she only wants to build up hate in her to nuture the god inside her, so the point of the monsters (cult members) are really to just incite anger and hate within Heather by attacking her.

But like what was stated by someone else, for the sake of the game itself, the creatures have got to try to kill her or it wouldn't be a game...or maybe they could've went the route of SM in that the creatures are merely just trying to stop your progress, but as terrifying as the game is, if the creatures ended up doing that it would've been kinda lame, and i'm sure nobody was thinking along those lines anyway.

as far as Vincent goes?...i generally agree with Naroon in that he probably knows that they are the cult, but he's playing damage control to further his own personal aspects.
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by smoke on Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:30 pm

I think only some of the monsters are cult members like the one that killed Harry and their smaller versions near the end. Other monsters like the dogs, closers and pendulums wouldn't make sense.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Naroon on Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:51 pm

Well you saw Leonard, didn't you? What was he doing in that battle, swimming around with a snorkeler the whole time? Some of the creatures, like the dogs, might still be imprints and manifestations of Alessa/Cheryl's fears, but I think most are cult members.
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by captain crowbar on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:04 pm

What if members of the cult are actually generated by Silent Hill's power sometimes
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:10 pm

Only Leonard and the Missionary boss as well as it's underlings are people. Leonard was transfigured into a monster, the cult members on appear to be ones. The rest of the monsters, are monsters, and not people. Vincent's dialogue is meant to confound the player.
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by smoke on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:32 pm

Yeah what purramid said. Another reason it wouldn't make sense for them all to be cult members is because how do they know where Heather is and where she's headed next?

I dunno how Leonard was squirming around underwater like that if he's a person. SH is weird lol
 
 
 
 
 
 

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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Naroon on Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:38 pm

"SH is weird" is really the only valid explanation for a lot of things in this series, lol.
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by whatisthatradio on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:05 pm

I've held a different theory for a long time. I definitely don't believe them to be cult members, but I DO believe that what Vincent tells heather holds some truth. (I certainly don't believe it was put there to confuse the player, whether it is just a personal theory or not.)

Since Heather is to be the woman to birth god, I believe that God projects certain aspects of the paradise through Heather throughout the game, especially in the otherworld. What Heather sees is true to her, because she has God within her, but what everyone else may see could be completely different
 
 
 
 
 
 

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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by poorjack on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:13 pm

REVEAL SPOILER
Howard Blackwood delivers the same line in a more concerned fashion in Book of Memories.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Naroon on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:27 pm

Isn't Howard the postman of doom? I kinda wanna play the game now, but I'm still holding off on the Vita.
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:49 am

whatisthatradio wrote:I've held a different theory for a long time. I definitely don't believe them to be cult members, but I DO believe that what Vincent tells heather holds some truth. (I certainly don't believe it was put there to confuse the player, whether it is just a personal theory or not.)



There is truth in what Vincent says, I am not sure this would be completely the right moment, however. Vincent has been mistaken and I think he did not realize the entire "truth" of the events of Silent Hill 1 until the last moments of the game with him and Claudia. I say this because it appears in memos and files he'd been gathering information trying to figure out what happened. But notice how his stance changes from the beginning towards the end of the game. In the beginning he first meets Heather, he seems to believe it is truly the work of God and that Harry kept things from Heather(which he did. How even he is surprised by the fact that Heather does not even know some basic things she should.), he finds the world "most fascinating". Whereas, later on he is quick to condemn Claudia for the nightmare. Vincent found out the truth about 1, as indicated at the end of the game, is unknown.

Still Vincent wants both Heather and Claudia dead. At first he claims he wants Heather did because God being born would be too inconvient. But later on, he makes it clear to Claudia that it is no god at all. He is known to lie, as he has about church funds. I think he is the one character outside of Dahlia who is a trickster. Though his intentions are more "pure" it seems. Heather even understands how he is trying to use her. Right before, he says the monster line he accuses her of loving violence. Afterwards, he claims it's a joke. This is important. "They look like monsters to you?" *Heather gasps* "Relax. Just a joke."
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Red_Wings on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:52 pm

Some of them just aren't monsters at all. See: Image
It's all a matter of perspective. ^^
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"They Look Like Monsters To You?" (spoilers)

Post by Naroon on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:16 pm

Yeah, Vincent is one of the most interesting characters because of those qualities, but I still don't like him due to his cowardice and tendency to use others for his own benefit. I really liked how the game shows you various convos he has with others (like Claudia and the unnamed female cult member via the tape), some decent character development.
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