Is the cult still operating?

[poorjack]

The way I see it, having a physical being inside Heather since leaving town in SH1 doesn't quite jive with the "rules" of Silent Hill. By "rules" I mean the things the... Otherworldly force never does. One of them is not manifesting creatures in the real world. So unless Heather never really left the fog world at the end of SH1, I don't see the plausibility of having god exist as a physical thing inside her. It could have manifest as soon as she came in contact with Douglas and triggered the fog world. Which would explain the sudden appearance of the numb bodies, the fetus like monsters in the mall.

It is also important to note the 21 sacraments of SH4. A ritual which did not call for Alessa herself. So there are back up plans, other than just using Alessa to birth the god.

[Asylum-Alice]

The way I see it, having a physical being inside Heather since leaving town in SH1 doesn't quite jive with the "rules" of Silent Hill. By "rules" I mean the things the... Otherworldly force never does. One of them is not manifesting creatures in the real world. So unless Heather never really left the fog world at the end of SH1, I don't see the plausibility of having god exist as a physical thing inside her. It could have manifest as soon as she came in contact with Douglas and triggered the fog world. Which would explain the sudden appearance of the numb bodies, the fetus like monsters in the mall.

It is also important to note the 21 sacraments of SH4. A ritual which did not call for Alessa herself. So there are back up plans, other than just using Alessa to birth the god.

There's too much controversy regarding "worlds" in Silent Hill that I won't argue on. A lot of people seem to think that Silent Hill is comprised of different worlds. I believe Silent Hill is manifesting the creatures in the real world, and so on and so forth, so she's always had the reincarnated god inside her and it wasn't awoken until Claudia showed up. My guess is that it sensed Claudia (as it's be referred to many times in SH3 she has strong faith, probably strong enough to connect with the god inside Heather; it may be a stretch, but it's a theory), and when Claudia upset Heather, it gave the god enough energy to change the environment. But ultimately, that might just be unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

....How did we get here? lol.

Also, with the 21 Sacraments. I don't think it had anything to do with Alessa or being a back-up plan to Alessa. It could be the cult was calling down numerous gods, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure Alessa had nothing to do with Walter. If you look up The Real Silent Hill Experience on YouTube and find the video talking about Silent Hill 4, they talk a little about it.

[poorjack]

I always thought that Dahlia had brainwashed Walter into doing the 21 sacraments by telling him he would bring his mother back, when infact, it was only to birth the god.

A backup plan, in case the plan with Cheryl failed.

[Asylum-Alice]

Half right. Dahlia did brainwash Walter into believing the 21 Sacraments would bring his mom back, when it really was just some sort of summoning cermony, but it was never stated what, so for all we know, it could be a completely different deity. It could've been a servant to the cult god.

[poorjack]

Yeah, could be right, there! But back to the topic at hand, it seems like most of the town of Silent Hill as well as Shepard's Glenn, and some of Ashfield were members of the Order, off shoot cults, or at least acquainted with the faith, so depending on your theories about the town of Silent Hill in the "real world" or unfragmented reality, it is safe to assume that a few members that have never been mentioned still live, and if you believe that SH is unaffected when in it's "real world" state, there could be a huge population of Order believers and priests.


(And I personally believe they would try to hurt Heather in any way possible.)

[Asylum-Alice]

Yes, back to topic. I agree. There are probably more than a few lingering members. This is probably a horrible metaphor, but it's like you can say for sure vampries or aliens exist. They are probably... hiding, or maybe there just aren't even enough of them to come out anymore. *shoulder shrug*

Lol. I love how off topic we got there, poorjack. =D Thanks for the interesting conversations. That was great.

[poorjack]

(back off topic)Yeah I have never been on a SH community like this before, however, I have played every game in the series multiple times through, and have been doing so constantly since 2003. So I have all these theories that have just brewed up in my head that didn't really come from anywhere external. I always just felt that the story really did belong to Heather.

(Back on topic) If Doctors (Kaufman) and mayors and cops and historians can be in the Order, I assume there are lots and lots of just regular people... And I don't think of them as in hiding, but not as active, and so not suspicious to outsiders. But still, if they are worshiping this god, and supporting her return to finish paradise, they have got to be looking or hoping for a vessel. We know Heather is at least conducive to bearing god as a child, so is it not plausible that her kids would also have this aspect? And her finding her kids in Silent Hill would be the greatest end to that story arch... Can you imagine this- "Have you seen my son? Short dark hair? His name is Harry." just heather going full circle from her father, and finishing his unfinished business in SH... God. Wishful thinking...

[Asylum-Alice]

You are very correct. There are others in on the cult that really have no shared beliefs, like Kaufman. It was really that he was profiting from there with the drug ring. I can't imagine that there'd be TOO many of these people, but probably there'd be some.

And your idea for Heather, that would be interesting. I think it'd be hilarious though if at the end the cult found out that Heather's children didn't have god and then they'd be all bummed out. Haha. Anyway. That is an idea.

[poorjack]

Well I just think it is an interesting concept, because of the cyclical nature of Silent Hill's trials, and now it is a very relevant concept because of the "full circle" concept in Downpour and Pastlife. The idea that you cannot leave untill your business is finished, even if you die, and that the town isn't done with the Masons. Dahlia died with the knowledge of 3 (I think) secret chapels to the Order, which I suspect may be what is focusing the reality bending properties of the town. Harry learns that these exist (right?) and never finds them. This may be his business, as the secret chapels seemed very important to me, but were then never touched again. Which is suspicious, but will probably never be touched, as it was probably something Team Silent had up their sleeve.

[Purramid_Head]

REVEAL SPOILER

not too mention the prominence of the Gillispie family.

[poorjack]

REVEAL SPOILER

not too mention the prominence of the Gillispie family.

REVEAL SPOILER

Yes. Founded an early mining company in the industrial revolution and whatnot.

[Asylum-Alice]

REVEAL SPOILER

not too mention the prominence of the Gillispie family.

REVEAL SPOILER

Yes. Founded an early mining company in the industrial revolution and whatnot.

REVEAL SPOILER

This information was just brought up by Downpour, right? I don't recall this ever being mentioned before in any of the other games. At least, none prior to the movie.

[poorjack]

REVEAL SPOILER

Yeah. They owned the mine from the intro to Downpour. There is a lot a lot a lot of enlightening literature in the mine relating to the Cult and to the origins of the otherworldy power.

[Asylum-Alice]

Okay, I'll have to look into that. The Let's Play of Downpour I'm watching doesn't go into the memos and notes found in the game.

[poorjack]

REVEAL SPOILER

I just finished Downpour yesterday morning at 100% sidequests... There is a lot of mythology in it and it seems (to me at least) to support the idea that the cult still exists (shadow symbols anyone?) not to mention that the halo of the sun is everywhere, and the seal of metatron appears several times.

Edit: Next time use spoiler tags. - Xu

[Asylum-Alice]

REVEAL SPOILER

I haven't noticed the Seal of Metatron, but I did notice one use of the Halo of the Sun.

Edit: Please, watch your spoilers. -Xu

[poorjack]

REVEAL SPOILER

Seal of metatron- left hand bell in the monastery

EDIT: though it appears to be a more modern version. Like the new simple order symbol that is pretty much the halo of the sun

[Purramid_Head]

Hey guys, this is a SH3 thread so could you add tags to your Downpour spoilers? Thanks.

@Poorjack

REVEAL SPOILER

that's the version of HOTS from Homecoming.

[Shadedarkan]

SH2 has the coal mine being operated by Whilst Company. If I spelled the name correctly. There is a mention at the Historical Society, but that's as far as it goes. (Info on Downpour in spoilers)

REVEAL SPOILER

I suppose Vatra saw more potential in the creepiness of mine and caves in general and expanded the idea. Yes, the Homecoming version of the Halo appears in many places in the Otherworld. But, the Seal of Metatron you mentioned seeing is the 'eye' from the halo set into a triangle. I'm not sure I'd call that a simplified version of the seal really, but that's my opinion

[poorjack]

REVEAL SPOILER

I thought it looked like the closest thing to the Seal of Metatron, hinting to the existance of the Sect of Valtiel, or to doings of Valtiel himself.