Xuchilbara

Moderator

User avatar

The Red God

Posts: 8734

Joined: Feb 21, 2006

Location: United States

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:57 pm

I remember when twin perfect came out with the video that berated downpour for taking "survival" out of horror gaming. However, I think silent hill 2 did that to the point where there was hardly any emphasis on surviving. At the very least it could be considered "soft" survival horror, but I am hesitant of even that.

The reason is because almost all games have some degree of survival. The difference with the "horror" part is that there ia emphasis on surviving for fear based reasons and other implications that set it apart from other genres. Sh2 lacks this and while shattered memories lacks the "horror" part, despite no combat, it still emphasized surviving. But I digress.

Let's start. In 2 the combat was never an emphasis, while this doesn't necessarily make it not survival horror, the game still lacks a good deal of defensive and evasive maneuvers to make up for that. This is coupled with while there is limited ammunition and health items the player is given them in abundance. Even on hard mode the game is quite easily beaten. One doesn't have to rely on evasion or counting bullets too much to survive. For some the lack of challenges makes the game and it's combat weak and boring. This was a major complaint across both American and Japanese audiences, the pressure of which caused the designers to redesign the combat in 3 to a more survival emphasis.

Another point of contention that makes it questionable in the survival horror genre is the fact that despite the game giving you plenty in supplies, the player doesn't have to fight moat enemies. The monster at the beginning and Eddie's fihht being exceptions. All monsters can be ran from and 90 percent of the boss fights are timed and the player can simply dodge by running. Even during the final stages of the game.
WHY NOT ZOIDBERG? (V)(;,,,;)(V)
 
 
 
 
 

Princess Kenny

Member

User avatar

The fairest princess in all the land.

Posts: 3908

Joined: Jun 21, 2010

Location: United Kingdom

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Princess Kenny on Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:14 pm

SH 2 is without a doubt the easiest Silent Hills. Too many health drinks & gun ammo. The only thing I got stuck on was the puzzles.
The user formally known as Walter White. Also formally formally known as OneFreeMan.
 
 
 
 
 

Oohfakanorus

Member

User avatar

My Star Sign Is MURDER!

Posts: 2329

Joined: Sep 28, 2011

Location: United Kingdom

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Oohfakanorus on Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:21 pm

I'm seriously going to have to have a play one day with the timed bosses. I've heard about them... but I normally lost patience and just start attacking them.
If it's only the monster under the bridge and Eddie you have to kill, then that sounds like more of a challenge. It was also entertaining switching off the radio, but then I lost something in the "Something's coming..." element.
No results found for oohfakanorus.
 
 
 
 
 

Borg

Member

User avatar

Ghost

Posts: 6606

Joined: Sep 28, 2011

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Borg on Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:01 pm

I 100% agree. SH2 sucks as at "survival" part of survival horror.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

Moderator

User avatar

The Red God

Posts: 8734

Joined: Feb 21, 2006

Location: United States

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:08 pm

Princess Lea wrote:I'm seriously going to have to have a play one day with the timed bosses. I've heard about them... but I normally lost patience and just start attacking them.
If it's only the monster under the bridge and Eddie you have to kill, then that sounds like more of a challenge. It was also entertaining switching off the radio, but then I lost something in the "Something's coming..." element.

The only reason I found out was because Whitney did it where she went through the game without fighting unless she had to. I had no idea they were timed before that. Like you I lose patience when I try it.
WHY NOT ZOIDBERG? (V)(;,,,;)(V)
 
 
 
 
 

Borg

Member

User avatar

Ghost

Posts: 6606

Joined: Sep 28, 2011

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Borg on Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:22 pm

I knew you could just wait on the first PH fight, didn't knew it was the same for all bosses.



Took me around 4 minutes. I guess other bosses are less frustrating since only PH has instant death attack.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Fur

Member

User avatar

Posts: 261

Joined: Aug 07, 2011

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Fur on Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:10 pm

devil hunter wrote:I knew you could just wait on the first PH fight, didn't knew it was the same for all bosses.

Took me around 4 minutes. I guess other bosses are less frustrating since only PH has instant death attack.

I had thought that was the only battle where I didn't have to fight until I read somewhere that I could do the same with pretty much any boss, haven't tried it myself yet though.
The game's not really challenging on normal although I do always struggle with that first PH encounter, I died twice in a row last time I played.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Naroon

Member

User avatar

Pillman's got a gun!

Posts: 5326

Joined: Mar 29, 2011

Location: United States

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Naroon on Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:10 pm

Agreed 100% with the OP. There's no emphasis on survival at all in SH2. I remember in just about all of my SH1 playthroughs, I always ended up playing the final section of the game very strategically so I wouldn't waste unnecessary ammo/health items, because that's just how hardcore the final boss was. I got careless on one playthrough and wound up dying more than 10 times before I managed to not get insta-fucked (playing on Hard mode) by Incubus' lightning attacks. I had so little ammo and health that I'd always run out of ammo and barely have any health, so I had to dodge perfectly for several long minutes before the boss died by itself. Very nerve-wracking.

It's very telling how SH3 was envisioned to have much more emphasis on combat and survival as a result of the fans' complaints of SH2. Combat was almost exclusively in tight, narrow corridors and the volume of enemies was increased. Enemies did more damage with their attacks and attacked more frequently. The combat was overhauled to include a block/parry/counter-attack system as well as more attacks per weapon. Ammo and health was much less abundant than in SH2. They even had an item introduced whose sole purpose was to attract enemies to you.

Some people may not mind this, but for me it was one reason for SH2 to drop several tiers of my personal ranking list. Once you get past the story, the game itself is very boring to play. There's not even that much to actually unlock besides seeing the other endings. For games like this, I desire both tight, streamlined gameplay as well as a good story. SH2 simply doesn't provide that balance.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6701

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:33 am

If I have had one gripe with the title it would be the the fact that once you are familiar with the game it is far to easy to complete. Initially the game did a great job making you feel uneasy, but when you go through multiple run throughs James is really not threatened at all. Maybe there were complaints about how difficult SH1 was, I don't know. But they tightened things up again for 3. The only other reason I can fathom is that this is a battle inside James' mind more than anything else. Because of that there would be more of an emphasis on completion, to find out what happened and why. Even so, making the game more difficult would have served it much better. One thing is for sure. This title has definitely expanded the series niche. Psychological horror. Psychological horror is a subgenre of horror fiction that relies on the characters' fears and emotional instability to build tension. It typically plays on archetypal shadow characteristics embodied by the threats characters face. Elements of psychological horror focus on the interplay inside of the characters' minds. The fight or survival for mental stability if you will.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

Moderator

User avatar

The Red God

Posts: 8734

Joined: Feb 21, 2006

Location: United States

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:18 am

But is James really fighting for his sanity? He seems emotionally conflicted but not unstable unlike Angela and Eddie. He seemed to have gotten passed that part before pr right after he snuffed Mary. In the game it's more about him coming to terms with hia inner demons and guilt more than anything. Not once was he ever driven to insane points quite unlike the mc of the suffering.
WHY NOT ZOIDBERG? (V)(;,,,;)(V)
 
 
 
 
 

Borg

Member

User avatar

Ghost

Posts: 6606

Joined: Sep 28, 2011

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Borg on Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:04 am

Pfff...by the way he acts and reacts to all the strange stuff you can say that there's no sanity left.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

Moderator

User avatar

The Red God

Posts: 8734

Joined: Feb 21, 2006

Location: United States

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:28 am

Hey, a man has his reasons to stick his hand in a poo filled toilet and not qash them afterwards!
WHY NOT ZOIDBERG? (V)(;,,,;)(V)
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6701

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:53 am

Anigav wrote:But is James really fighting for his sanity? He seems emotionally conflicted but not unstable unlike Angela and Eddie. He seemed to have gotten passed that part before pr right after he snuffed Mary. In the game it's more about him coming to terms with hia inner demons and guilt more than anything. Not once was he ever driven to insane points quite unlike the mc of the suffering.


No, James is sane. But he has no idea what happened at the beginning of the game, as far as what he did. He is there to learn more about himself through his journey, about the type of person he is. Eddie and Angela's appearances, at least for James are part of that self discovery. Is he a cold blooded killer like Eddie? Will he succom to his guilt and end his life like Angela wants to? Both characters say this same line to James. "You're the same as me". He must also find out how selfish he really is. Maria tests his character as well. It is more a battle against himself. His mind is the psychological battle ground for his soul unfolding in Silent Hill.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Borg

Member

User avatar

Ghost

Posts: 6606

Joined: Sep 28, 2011

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Borg on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:57 pm

Anigav wrote:Hey, a man has his reasons to stick his hand in a poo filled toilet and not qash them afterwards!


Lol yep. Or hide in the closet instead of walking out through the same door he came in.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6701

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:05 pm

I just wish the series would head back to its roots. 3 out of the 1st 4 games were great games and were successful building off the origin story. Origins was a great installment as well. Since then there has not been a title released that has tried to build or branch off of it as far as that storyline is concerned. Homecoming and Downpour were both based on inner demons with not much success. Eventhough I enjoyed playing both. SH2 seems like a tough act to follow.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

schlaufuchsMIKE

Member

User avatar

Smartass >:)

Posts: 468

Joined: Mar 22, 2012

Location: United States

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by schlaufuchsMIKE on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:54 am

devil hunter wrote:
Anigav wrote:Hey, a man has his reasons to stick his hand in a poo filled toilet and not qash them afterwards!


Lol yep. Or hide in the closet instead of walking out through the same door he came in.

Or not turning off his flashlight while he's hiding in that closet.
"First day off the sauce and somehow I'd still ended up in the gutter." ~ Max Payne
 
 
 
 
 

Xuchilbara

Moderator

User avatar

The Red God

Posts: 8734

Joined: Feb 21, 2006

Location: United States

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:54 am

Otherworld wrote:I just wish the series would head back to its roots. 3 out of the 1st 4 games were great games and were successful building off the origin story. Origins was a great installment as well. Since then there has not been a title released that has tried to build or branch off of it as far as that storyline is concerned. Homecoming and Downpour were both based on inner demons with not much success. Eventhough I enjoyed playing both. SH2 seems like a tough act to follow.



Whenever the devs made a game like or tried in the footsteps of silent hill 2 they get ripped to pieces for copying. When 2 and 3 loved yo copy previous games and eachother. So then the devs tried to be like 2 but be it's own thing and people were still not satisfied. The fans don't know what they want and I thought shsm was a perfect installment to the series, it's overlooked because it's not Japanese or something. There's never going to be another sh2, folks. Similarly, it's not what you want anyway.
WHY NOT ZOIDBERG? (V)(;,,,;)(V)
 
 
 
 
 

nur_ein_tier

SHC Admin

User avatar

Posts: 6849

Joined: Jan 18, 2006

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by nur_ein_tier on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:57 am

True dat. I mean, they wanted to target the same audience as Resident Evil. At the time, RE games still were survival horror. Once they got the attention of that market, apparently they focused on complaints about it (probably "wacky dialogue," "wacky story line," etc.) and totally changed shit around. It's like the people who complain that "[insert a Silent Hill title here] isn't scary!" Well, not all of them are supposed to be scary. SH2 is horrific in the sense of having a dark and depressing storyline, but it certainly isn't omg-i'm-scared horror.

So I would say the series belongs to the "Silent Hill" genre, anyway; not necessarily the survival horror genre (SH2 and certainly SHSM are hardly survival horror).
ImageImageImage
 
 
 
 
 

Borg

Member

User avatar

Ghost

Posts: 6606

Joined: Sep 28, 2011

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Borg on Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:02 am

Otherworld wrote:I just wish the series would head back to its roots. 3 out of the 1st 4 games were great games and were successful building off the origin story. Origins was a great installment as well. Since then there has not been a title released that has tried to build or branch off of it as far as that storyline is concerned. Homecoming and Downpour were both based on inner demons with not much success. Eventhough I enjoyed playing both. SH2 seems like a tough act to follow.


I'm not sure what you're talking about by saying "roots". What origin story?

It depends on what you mean "based on inner demons with not much success". I don't remember many people complaining so much about characters and story in Homeocming and Downpour (outside of Homecoming's twist). Homecoming was also based on the cult.
They didn't try to be like SH2 (well....maybe Homecoming). I'm surprised you didn't list Origins and SM there, because those were about inner demons as well.

Always find it interesting that when a game which focuses on a character and his psyche is called a SH2 ripoff but when the game has cult etc. it's not a SH1 ripoff.

What's up with that?


schlaufuchsMIKE wrote:Or not turning off his flashlight while he's hiding in that closet.


Well, to be fair, you can turn off the flashlight and when that scene happens it won't be turned on.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6701

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

Taking the "survival" out of horror (spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:43 pm

Anigav wrote:
Otherworld wrote:I just wish the series would head back to its roots. 3 out of the 1st 4 games were great games and were successful building off the origin story. Origins was a great installment as well. Since then there has not been a title released that has tried to build or branch off of it as far as that storyline is concerned. Homecoming and Downpour were both based on inner demons with not much success. Eventhough I enjoyed playing both. SH2 seems like a tough act to follow.



Whenever the devs made a game like or tried in the footsteps of silent hill 2 they get ripped to pieces for copying. When 2 and 3 loved yo copy previous games and eachother. So then the devs tried to be like 2 but be it's own thing and people were still not satisfied. The fans don't know what they want and I thought shsm was a perfect installment to the series, it's overlooked because it's not Japanese or something. There's never going to be another sh2, folks. Similarly, it's not what you want anyway.


That's the problem with this fan base. It is probably the most difficult to please. SHSM was a great game. I think people overlook it because of the reimagining part. Like it was a rip off, trying to reap the benefits off SH1 again while it is a completely different game. IMO there is still great potential for an SH2 type story. The real question is can that potential be realized ? It just seems very difficult. That is why there should be another origin based story again. That to me is the right direction for the series right now.
Image
 
 
 
Next


Return to Silent Hill 2



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron