Could or could not Maria be seen by others? (spoilers)

[NarooN]

Been having a debate with another guy about this, and neither of us can really come to a conclusion. I've seen people say Maria can't be seen by anyone else besides James (and to another extent, Ernest), but is there really any evidence for this? I've always been on the camp which believes that only James could see her in the main scenario, but I want to see what you guys think.

E.g. in the bowling alley scene. I always pointed out how it made no sense for her to deny going in with James, and opting to stay outside where monsters are roaming. Didn't she come with him in the first place to be protected? Why then, adamantly refuse to go inside with James to a relatively "safe" area and then remain in the same place he found you? One could think she knew Eddie & Laura were in there, but if she couldn't be seen, why would she not wanna go in anyway?

The guy in question also brought up Laura getting "chased" by Maria. I think this was just Maria putting on airs, pretending to chase after her but possibly not even being seen. If Laura would've actually seen her, wouldn't she actually stop and do a double-take at least since she looks so much like Mary? The thing is, we never actually see Maria chase after her at all, so we can only assume.

The place we're both at right now is that this entire section was just a poorly-handled way to get the player to progress on to the next area, lol.

And as for Eddie and Angela, we never see Maria interacting with them, but the only time we see Maria is when she's around James anyway. Then again, none of the other characters not once ever mention seeing Maria or anyone who resembles her. Like I pointed out in the "chase" scene outside, Laura would've at least mentioned that she saw "Mary" or something if she saw Maria chasing her.

[astro]

My instinct tells me that she can't be seen by anyone else, but I really don't know, and I don't think anyone can with the information we're given. This kind of thing also has to be built on your frame of reference for stuff you believe unless you want to go through every possibility as well, and bias isn't a very good starting point for understanding anything.

Personally, I don't think Maria was in actual danger from anything unless James was around her, her purpose was to be a trial for James and there's no point of anything killing her outside of a realm of his control aside from Pyramid Head stuff. I don't think she went inside because it would make her a component of the situation, and James' reality would be shattered if they couldn't see her. I'd guess that Laura wouldn't be able to see Maria and Maria wouldn't be truly chasing Laura in any real sense, it's just supposed to look that way for James.

This isn't really based on anything, but that's what I'd assume happens without looking into it.

[schlaufuchsMIKE]

We don't see Angela interact with any of the other characters, either.

[NarooN]

True. James is the only one to interact with everyone else from the scenario, and the only person Eddie was seen with besides James was Laura. Perhaps it's possible for people to not even see each other if they're "deep enough" into their own Otherworlds? Angela did say that her's was "always like [that]" when responding to James about how hot and hellish it was. Maybe she descended deeper before the others did.

[Meltdown]

In respect to Ockham's Razor, I'm gonna say the most logical answer is no. Her character's background and history is much less a factor in how she talks/behaves as compared to Angela, or Eddie. Likewise she is never seen or discussed by Angela, Eddie, or Laura. Doesn't seem too complicated to me.

[schlaufuchsMIKE]

I don't think Maria could be seen by the others because outside of James perspective in Silent Hill, she doesn't exist. Actually, now that I think of it, considering that James had a glimpse of Angela and Eddie's otherworlds, I think it's possible. As for Ernest seeing Maria, I think he doesn't exist outside of her perspective, either, and that that whole scenario was created to help players understand the nature of the events in the game.

[Devoured]

The way the game is set up, there's no way of telling. Maria does interact with objects however and memos allude to her. She obviously also interacts with the aforementioned Ernest. The Book Of Lost Memories pretty much implies it's only Laura that can not see her though and this is not established in the game either :

"To her the town appears normal; she does not see any monsters, nor does she see Maria."

She does weasel out of situations, the bowling alley, the hospital...Maria does see her entering Brookhaven on-screen.

[schlaufuchsMIKE]

She sees Laura, but Laura doesn't see her.

Thanks for catching that.

[Devoured]

Uhm, you mean "Laura *doesnt* see her"?

I know, it was just a random thought. Other than that short clip, James never sees them together once and while Maria, probably subconsciously, generally appears to avoid 'not being seen' by Laura in James' presence, she does urge him to go after her and right at that moment she doesn't seem to care [since technically Laura could be just on the other side of the door, resulting in her claiming there's no Maria, interfering with James' delusions].

[Purramid_Head]

Well, Laura doesn't see her. The only people who can see and hear Maria besides James is dead people. Probably because Maria is some sort of ressurected/reincarnated form of Mary, that's why the rebirth ritual may work. I guess the town has a history for people being reincarnated or it reincarnating people. Of course, Maria isn't on the same level as Alessa.

[Charles Phipps]

I go with the assumption Maria is a demon.

She's different from just the regular monsters in that she's something MORE. However, I think Angela and Eddie COULD see her if she was with him because we know that dreams can cross over one another. James fought Angela's Dad monster despite the fact they have nothing to do with one another. Likewise, Angela mentioned James was abandoning Mary for someone else.

I think Laura is the exception because as an innocent Maria has no power over her.

[Purramid_Head]

There's no evidence Maria is a demon, let alone "evil" or "harmful". The spirits don't treat her like a monster and she fits them. She also tends to help James, not hinder him. A demon would help someone if they had an ulterior motive. Maria has none of this and almost killed herself in BFAW. That doesn't sound very demonic.

[Charles Phipps]

There's no evidence Maria is a demon, let alone "evil" or "harmful". The spirits don't treat her like a monster and she fits them. She also tends to help James, not hinder him. A demon would help someone if they had an ulterior motive. Maria has none of this and almost killed herself in BFAW. That doesn't sound very demonic.

Maria is one of the Boss fights in the game, I point out. She's a figure who is meant to punish James psychologically. I don't think she has an existence prior to Silent Hill creating her (which is confirmed in the Maria-based side-story) but she's not there to help James. She's there to screw with his head.

The fact she's immortal also makes any real killing impossible.

I think of her as Pyramid's double in a way. Maria is basically James saying, "you didn't want your wife as anything but a sex toy, you sick jerk."

just my .02.

I think it's kind of cool to think Maria might be falling for James, though, only to find that she disgusts him.

[Purramid_Head]

The boss battles don't prove anything. Especially since there is no canonical ending. People were turned into monsters before in SH, its not unsual. Mary also turned in a monster and she isn't a demon. It doesn't mean they're demons. Also, I thought her "immortality" is obvious. She's being brought back by something else, likely Xuchilpaba since is procedes over the rebirth ritual. She's probably not immortal like Alessa at all.

[Charles Phipps]

The boss battles don't prove anything. Especially since there is no canonical ending. People were turned into monsters before in SH, its not unsual. Mary also turned in a monster and she isn't a demon. It doesn't mean they're demons. Also, I thought her "immortality" is obvious. She's being brought back by something else, likely Xuchilpaba since is procedes over the rebirth ritual. She's probably not immortal like Alessa at all.

Well I use the term demon as basically a term for "monsters" like the kind Silent Hill constructs.

She's there for a very specific urpose.

To each their own.

[Purramid_Head]

In the context of Silent Hill demons benefit from negative emotions of people and function exactly like mazoku. Maria is none of this. In fact there's nothing to suggest any sort of malicious supernatural force out to get James. Alessa would be another story because of the cult and it's practices.

[Meltdown]

Someone needs to bring down the ban hammer on our buddy astro here.

[NarooN]

I forgot about how Laura couldn't see her. Nice. Really digging you guys' thoughts here.

[what]

I have always gone with the idea that Maria is a construct, comprised of both Mary and James and their emotional makeups. It's a tricky thing to say whether things made in the Otherworld are 'alive' but I don't consider them to be in quite the same manner, so Maria's resurrection is no more complicated than that she is simply re-manifesting and can do so as many times as is necessary. A respawn, if you will, like some other monsters do from time to time, only hers is dependent on the plot. : p

Given that she is an element of James' Otherworld, she is no more visible to other people than his monsters, or probably a lot of other less obvious features which are visible (and real) to him. She's not a demon and she's not evil; she is only what she is made to be, by the people who mentally enable her existence.

But Devoured points out what is important: she is deliberately positioned (by the plot railroad) so that James can never see her in a position where another character might directly interact with her. This was probably done to keep the subject ambiguous for the player, but the in-game reason is probably more direct: it would be far more difficult to maintain the idea that she is invisible to others if she is placed in direct contact with them.

[Purramid_Head]

I have always gone with the idea that Maria is a construct, comprised of both Mary and James and their emotional makeups. It's a tricky thing to say whether things made in the Otherworld are 'alive' but I don't consider them to be in quite the same manner, so Maria's resurrection is no more complicated than that she is simply re-manifesting and can do so as many times as is necessary. A respawn, if you will, like some other monsters do from time to time, only hers is dependent on the plot. : p

Pretty much. Btw have you ever noticed that after you replay the game after getting rebirth the monsters respawn all the time and when you get in water and then replay they don't? I have...