Is Mary's Body in the back of James car?(Spoilers)

[Floodclaw]

I don't believe 'In Water' is James running away from his problems and responsibilities. I see it as him accepting what he has done and doing what he must to be with Mary, as they both wanted to be to begin with.

[Q. Valintyne]

I don't believe 'In Water' is James running away from his problems and responsibilities. I see it as him accepting what he has done and doing what he must to be with Mary, as they both wanted to be to begin with.

I agree with this. It seems to be the most romantic of the endings, in my opinion. I don't mean "love," but true Romanticism. It's akin to (Downpour SPOILER)

REVEAL SPOILER

Murphy's acceptance of the events around him and what he has to later become.

It's still my favorite of the endings.

[what]

I don't believe 'In Water' is James running away from his problems and responsibilities. I see it as him accepting what he has done and doing what he must to be with Mary, as they both wanted to be to begin with.

It's some of both.

After all, he says it himself: "Without you, I have nothing."

[astro]

Why not? The town is guiding him in some way.

I was always bothered by the "he blocked out everything" explanation. How does that work? Is it like an instant amnesia or something?

It makes more sense that supernatural stuff is at play there.

Missed this post. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that James was somewhat two-minded throughout his experience, it's the main reason behind me thinking that James is more of a broken individual than anything else. On one hand he has a passionate, reactionary position on suicide, but on the other hand he jumps down dark holes in the ground for pretty much no reason, there's also parts of the game like when he leaves the hospital and he seems to know what's going on. I don't think there are really any arguments against the town influencing his memory because it does mostly fit except for a couple of minor debatable points, like Angela being much more aware than James, but it's explainable without it.

[Purramid_Head]

Actually it's not. The town calls people with darkness in their hearts and the Crimson Tome that goes to that ceremony of Xuchilpaba states "the lies and the mist aren't they but I." The corrsponding tablet in Maria's game states that it is a "spirit of the mist".

Parts like if you try to skip Eddie and go to Angela a "power" blocks the door, (Jamesy's words, not mine.) time loops, blocked paths and unblocked paths later at night give the feeling James's ordeal is very fated.

[astro]

Actually it's not. The town calls people with darkness in their hearts and the Crimson Tome that goes to that ceremony of Xuchilpaba states "the lies and the mist aren't they but I." The corrsponding tablet in Maria's game states that it is a "spirit of the mist".

Parts like if you try to skip Eddie and go to Angela a "power" blocks the door, (Jamesy's words, not mine.) time loops, blocked paths and unblocked paths later at night give the feeling James's ordeal is very fated.

I agree that the town is guiding him, but I don't think the things you mentioned implies that the town wiped his memory.

[Purramid_Head]

Actually it's not. The town calls people with darkness in their hearts and the Crimson Tome that goes to that ceremony of Xuchilpaba states "the lies and the mist aren't they but I." The corrsponding tablet in Maria's game states that it is a "spirit of the mist".

Parts like if you try to skip Eddie and go to Angela a "power" blocks the door, (Jamesy's words, not mine.) time loops, blocked paths and unblocked paths later at night give the feeling James's ordeal is very fated.

I agree that the town is guiding him, but I don't think the things you mentioned implies that the town wiped his memory.

Yes, yes let's just ignore any evidence of the supernatural and mention of lies (you know delusions.) And believe this is normal for people and towns.

[astro]

Actually it's not. The town calls people with darkness in their hearts and the Crimson Tome that goes to that ceremony of Xuchilpaba states "the lies and the mist aren't they but I." The corrsponding tablet in Maria's game states that it is a "spirit of the mist".

Parts like if you try to skip Eddie and go to Angela a "power" blocks the door, (Jamesy's words, not mine.) time loops, blocked paths and unblocked paths later at night give the feeling James's ordeal is very fated.

I agree that the town is guiding him, but I don't think the things you mentioned implies that the town wiped his memory.

Yes, yes let's just ignore any evidence of the supernatural and mention of lies (you know delusions.) And believe this is normal for people and towns.

I'm not ignoring it. What you're citing sounds like "it comes from within me" rather than "the town destroyed my memory".

[Purramid_Head]

The evidence is scattered out in Maria and James's scenerios. If they had no relevence there would be no reason to include these things with in the story that connects them to the rebirth ending. To ignore such would be ignoring the fact that such gods or entities lead people in obdience to God. Even Ernest mentions the gods.

Ernest; the gods are here. You can feel it too, Maria, you were born here.

Maria; I'm not sure if "gods" is the right word for it.

When you have a character like Maria working independently of James before she met him, you'd think "huh, maybe there is something more going on than James's mental state." Especially if she can hear and interact with spirits of people that died there. Something Ernest commented on. After all, James sess and hears nothing in regard to spirits.

[astro]

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but it still doesn't imply that the town wiped his memory, eg:

When you have a character like Maria working independently of James before she met him, you'd think "huh, maybe there is something more going on than James's mental state." Especially if she can hear and interact with spirits of people that died there. Something Ernest commented on. After all, James sess and hears nothing in regard to spirits.

How does this imply that the town wiped his memory, instead of the town manipulating him in the midst of his mental breakdown?

[devil hunter]

How can a man who killed his wife and took her body to their special place to end his life so he can be together with her suddenly lose his memory? He didn't do it himself.

That's why I think that the town made him lose his memory.

[Purramid_Head]

This is simple.. The town calls people, it called James, drives there, parks, and then he loses his memory, Silent Hill 2 happens. If he had drove anywhere else, including another town, none of that would have ever happened.


By psychological terms he should have lost his memory before then.

[devil hunter]

This is simple.. The town calls people, it called James, drives there, parks, and then he loses his memory, Silent Hill 2 happens. If he had drove anywhere else, including another town, none of that would have ever happened.


By psychological terms he should have lost his memory before then.

Exactly.

[astro]

This is simple.. The town calls people, it called James, drives there, parks, and then he loses his memory, Silent Hill 2 happens. If he had drove anywhere else, including another town, none of that would have ever happened.

By psychological terms he should have lost his memory before then.

How do you know he loses his memory after he parks? I pointed out earlier that he brought a map with him, and the fact that he was considering going into Silent Hill before he arrived, instead of just killing himself as we know was his original intention, assumes that he was working off knowledge that he would only be able to accept without accepting that he killed Mary before he arrived in the town. And how is the town erasing his memory more valid than his fractured mental state making susceptible, so he had a reason to go to the town, and then began chasing his physically manifested delusions in Silent Hill once he was vulnerable to its judgement? We don't need to introduce more than what's accepted about Silent Hill 2 in order to come up with a reasonable conclusion pertaining to James' memory.

Also, it's a story; there are psychological inconsistencies in fiction all the time, especially in Silent Hill.

[devil hunter]

How do you know he loses his memory after he parks? I pointed out earlier that he brought a map with him, and the fact that he was considering going into Silent Hill before he arrived, instead of just killing himself as we know was his original intention, assumes that he was working off knowledge that he would only be able to accept without accepting that he killed Mary before he arrived in the town. And how is the town erasing his memory more valid than his fractured mental state making susceptible, so he had a reason to go to the town, and then began chasing his physically manifested delusions in Silent Hill once he was vulnerable to its judgement? We don't need to introduce more than what's accepted about Silent Hill 2 in order to come up with a reasonable conclusion pertaining to James' memory.

Also, it's a story; there are psychological inconsistencies in fiction all the time, especially in Silent Hill.

It makes sense that he loses his memory in the town. because he brought the body of his wife. He even says it himself in "In Water" ending how he now knows the real reason he came to the town.

The town making him lose his memory is more valid because of this order of events:

- He kills his wife
- Takes her body and puts it in the trunk
- Goes to their special place, Silent Hill (He plans to kill himself there like how it was shown in "In Water" ending)
- Loses his memory

How does that work? Like Xuch said, if he blocked out his memory himself that would have happened before, but why did it happen when he got to the town town? The town made him forget everything.

And yes, there are psychological inconsistencies in fiction but this is really stretching it, if the town didn't make him lose his memory, then frankly, it doesn't make sense at all.

[astro]

How can a man who killed his wife and took her body to their special place to end his life so he can be together with her suddenly lose his memory? He didn't do it himself.

That's why I think that the town made him lose his memory.

I think it's a valid interpretation, I just don't think it's needed to explain the situation. It's evident that James from the time he killed Mary, and probably before that, was an unstable person. He probably had a long ride to Silent Hill with Mary in the backseat of his car, he could've lost his memory there and it wouldn't be any less valid than the town erased it, except we're only using elements of the story that we already know to be true (even though I don't think he actually "lost his memory" semantically [he didn't hit his head or something]).

[Purramid_Head]

Delusions are based on a false belief. In order to have those the way James has, memory loss is needed. As I stated "the lies and the mist aren't they but I." Means it has to be a product of Xuchilpaba/the town. Since Maria is born from a "wish", it's not solely James mental state at work. The whole situation seems to be there in order for James to find redemption and it works with What's theory that the game is to avoid such a fate of In Water's ending.

Psychology itself is a pseudo-science. Science concerns verified data that can be replicated in a lab. Psychology is the study of the invidual's mind and therefore by its very basis cannot be a science since individual results vary.

[astro]

How do you know he loses his memory after he parks? I pointed out earlier that he brought a map with him, and the fact that he was considering going into Silent Hill before he arrived, instead of just killing himself as we know was his original intention, assumes that he was working off knowledge that he would only be able to accept without accepting that he killed Mary before he arrived in the town. And how is the town erasing his memory more valid than his fractured mental state making susceptible, so he had a reason to go to the town, and then began chasing his physically manifested delusions in Silent Hill once he was vulnerable to its judgement? We don't need to introduce more than what's accepted about Silent Hill 2 in order to come up with a reasonable conclusion pertaining to James' memory.

Also, it's a story; there are psychological inconsistencies in fiction all the time, especially in Silent Hill.

It makes sense that he loses his memory in the town. because he brought the body of his wife. He even says it himself in "In Water" ending how he now knows the real reason he came to the town.

The town making him lose his memory is more valid because of this order of events:

- He kills his wife
- Takes her body and puts it in the trunk
- Goes to their special place, Silent Hill (He plans to kill himself there like how it was shown in "In Water" ending)
- Loses his memory

How does that work? Like Xuch said, if he blocked out his memory himself that would have happened before, but why did it happen when he got to the town town? The town made him forget everything.

And yes, there are psychological inconsistencies in fiction but this is really stretching it, if the town didn't make him lose his memory, then frankly, it doesn't make sense at all.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think he lost his memory in the "I don't remember anymore" kind of way, he's just indulging himself in his delusions because he likes them more than the idea that he killed his wife. That doesn't mean he actually knows he killed his wife and at the end he just admits it, but his memory isn't exactly fully 'gone', which can be observed throughout the game as with the hospital example I mentioned.

[devil hunter]

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think he lost his memory in the "I don't remember anymore" kind of way, he's just indulging himself in his delusions because he likes them more than the idea that he killed his wife. That doesn't mean he actually knows he killed his wife and at the end he just admits it, but his memory isn't exactly fully 'gone', which can be observed throughout the game as with the hospital example I mentioned.

But he doesn't remember. He thinks that something else happened, he's delusional. Nobody said that his memory is fully gone, only the details about Mary's death are gone.

If he indulged into his delusions because he likes it more than the idea that he killed his wife then why does he do that if he planned to kill himself? He's just escaping the inevitable.

[astro]

Delusions are based on a false belief. In order to have those the way James has, memory loss is needed. As I stated "the lies and the mist aren't they but I." Means it has to be a product of Xuchilpaba/the town. Since Maria is born from a "wish", it's not solely James mental state at work. The whole situation seems to be there in order for James to find redemption and it works with What's theory that the game is to avoid such a fate of In Water's ending.

Psychology itself is a pseudo-science. Science concerns verified data that can be replicated in a lab. Psychology is the study of the invidual's mind and therefore by its very basis cannot be a science since individual results vary.

Here's the problem with what you're saying:

Delusions are based on a false belief [true]

Memory loss is needed [true]

There are physical manifestations of James' psyche in the town [true]

The town is guiding him [true (but What's theory isn't necessary to include)]

So, delusions are based on a false belief and there are physical manifestations of James' psyche in Silent Hill and the town is guiding him; therefore the town erased his memory.

Also, the mind is a product of what the brain does, and that's what psychology studies. There can be underlying truths in something even if some things are subjective, and that doesn't make it any less of a science.