Ramen

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Ramen on Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:57 pm

I played the sub-scenario over the weekend. It wasn't all that much but it was more SH2 so i'm happy really. How many of you have played it?

It doesn't explain an excessive amount, but it makes Maria seem more believable as a character, less distant. It made me care a little more when I saw Maria die.

What did/do you think?

"He's looking for the you that's not you."
 
 
 
 
 
 

Floodclaw

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Floodclaw on Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:23 pm

Yes, I have played it. It made me understand Maria even more, and see her more as a character instead of just [spoiler]a stunt double of Mary[/spoiler]

Also, I liek chopping things with the Chinese Cleaver 8)

Theories on Vincent anyone?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Seraph

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Seraph on Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:55 pm

Sadly I have never played it, having only the original PS2 version of the game.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Zyaphear

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Zyaphear on Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:57 pm

Same for me, I only have the original version. I saw directors cut version once for about ?15. Tried looking for it last week, but it wasn't there.
 
 
 
 
 
 

StrangeDays

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by StrangeDays on Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:15 pm

Ramen wrote:I played the sub-scenario over the weekend. It wasn't all that much but it was more SH2 so i'm happy really. How many of you have played it?

It doesn't explain an excessive amount, but it makes Maria seem more believable as a character, less distant. It made me care a little more when I saw Maria die.

What did/do you think?

"He's looking for the you that's not you."


In true Silent Hill fashion, the "Born From a Wish" scenario raises more questions than it answers. There has been alot of speculation as to the significance of the sub-plot and Maria's origins. Their is a general consensus that she was made up of the desires of Mary and James (more specifically James). I'm not completely sure what to make of it, perhaps someone more knowledgable can shed some light on the matter.

(Xuchilbara? XD)
 
 
 
 
 
 

Ophiel42

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Ophiel42 on Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:46 am

I did enjoy the scenario. OK, it was a bit short, but it was very though-provoking. I wanted to know so much more about Ernest. He seemed to "know" about everything that was going on - all from that little room. Very impressive.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Floodclaw

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Floodclaw on Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:43 pm

Well, here is my theory on Ernest: [spoiler] Well, first of all, Ernest is dead. He wishes to resurrect his daughter so as he may see her again. But, just as soon as Maria gets the items (which seem a lot like the rez items needed for the Rebirth ending), Ernests soul is fulfilled and since he has no more business here in the mortal world, he crosses over, which explains why the room is empty when Maria opens it. Now Ernest and Amy (?) can be together in the spirit world as all should be. [/spoiler]
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Lilith on Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:06 pm

That would be the mystery that is Silent Hill now wouldn't it flood? ;)

Well I take many lines from here you can find out some.. things..
"You can feel it too, Maria. You were born here."
"I don't think 'gods' is the right word for it." -about the power of the town

"A little bear.. Laura loved bears.. wait who's Laura?"

"November ten years ago.." (I'm not sure what she is referring to with this.)

Atfer explaing the ressurction of the dead ceremony " Maria you are.."
Maria :"No I'm not."
Ernest; "Then it will work." (something like that.)



[spoiler] My personal belief judging from the evidence, Maria IS Mary but not. Like Alessa/Cheryl IS Heather but not. Or better yet, Alessa and Cheryl are the sam person with two distict personalities and Alessa wants to rid herself or her happy self as Cheryl. ;) In this way maria would be Mary, a side of Mary not seen because she was ill, something she wanted to be for James.[/spoiler]
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Lxshr

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Lxshr on Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:46 pm

My own personal theroy: (sry tis long)

[spoiler]Maria was a normal person but concider if she was simaler to Angela or Eddie, no i don't think she did somthign as dramatic as stabing or shooting somone. I think maby its just about the deeds her general life was like. i dotn know anyone here personaly so if you happen to have the same profeshion then im sorry to ofend but due to the fact that she had a key into hevans night (and certan other evidence) it is beleved that she is a stripper, and (altho there is not much evidence) posably a prostotute, for this the town's power felt to take judgement on her, and she obviusly failed, but because her crimes are not exactly as servere as James', Eddie's, or Angela's, she only lost her memory and was used by the town for a time until her death (or her depart with james depending on the ending).

However if i may contradict myself she says "november ten years ago..." that is evidince that i am wrong about her acts nto being as server as james or Eddies or angelas, it may be the date somthign happend to her or she did somthing terrible

In born from a wish we follow her last hours before the town finishes (for lack of a better word) "editing" her, and with her last hours she managed to help Ernest, somone who seems to know everything about the town, its possable he was a Former cult member (i know during SH2 the cult was nto active but that dose nto mean members did not exist), this would explain the line "I don't think 'gods' is the right word for it." it would also explaine why he knows so much abotu the town, and it might explan why he dosent exist (once you enter the room) because if indeed he was a cult memeber then the town's 'power' woudl react difrently to him as it did with Walter in SH4 or Jimmy Stone SH2 (possably Pyramid head).
[/spoiler]
 
 
 
 
 
 

StrangeDays

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by StrangeDays on Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:45 pm

[spoiler] I haven't played the "Born from a Wish" scenario in a long time, but wasn't the "ten years ago" quote refering to the death of his daughter? I'm not sure, I honestly don't remember.[/spoiler]
 
 
 
 
 
 

Floodclaw

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Post by Floodclaw on Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:00 pm

Hmm.......maybe.

All good theories. Mine is above.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Lilith on Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:29 pm

I think it could be.

If Maria was her own person and not of Mary, even though I have proof she IS Mary. That does not explain her mememories and feelings of Laura, and her memories of James later on.

See Maria is manifested out of James's delusion, his desire for his wife. now there really was a Maria before, but she had long black hair. Not short blonde hair. This is probaly the stripper James saw when he went to visit SH.

Lost memories proves Maria IS Mary, and not just because of their voices and their names being the same and them being like 'twins'

[spoiler]
name: Maria
age: 25
sex: f
job: dancer

profile: A woman who bears an uncanny resemblance to Mary, although
her personality and taste in clothing are completely opposite. For
some reason, she tags along with James.

creator's comment

The heroine from the first scenario also had an existence characterized
by a double personality.
The first character is "Mary," and so the name
"Maria" is derived from that.

raison d'etre

James bears the weight of the crime of killing his wife, resulting in
the creation of this delusion. It is established in the third game
that Maria was a dancer at the club Heaven's Night. [/spoiler]

what does this mean? no, A double personality does not mean Mary has split personalities, it means she has a alter ego, like Superman and Clark kent. That's kinda why she's diffrent than Mary. Maria is the side of Mary she could not be for James because of her debaltating illness, but wanted to be. Also what he wanted to be, in her last letter the full version, you can see how she felt guilty because her illness prevented her from pleasing James, and she tells James to move on and be happy.


Now there's some things to add about Maria, check her dress code there. you'll notice some symbols, like butterflies a symbol of reincarnation, the after life, and otherworld. And what is the primarly color on maria's attire? It's red isn't it? Kinda weird huh? Since Xuchilpaba takes full responsibility for the manifestations & events that take place in 2 "The lies and the mist aren't they.( 'they' refering to the cult) but I."

now about ernest he is a cult member, why do you think he knew about the Crismen ceremony and the white chrism? Also the things he knew about Maria without knowing. and why can Maria hear spirits? 9IMO because she is closer to "death".) i also heard some theory that he owns the hotel, that imo could be a possibility.
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Conjurer

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Conjurer on Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:04 pm

I think your misinterpreting that passage. It's referring to the original idea of Silent Hill 2, in which was cancelled & rewritten.

I like your idea. However, I hope you don't mind that I expand from it?

[spoiler]Mary is a caterpillar. After she becomes sick & angry, she goes into a cocoon of loneliness (mentioned in James' letter from Mary). What comes out of this cocoon is Maria, the butterfly.

The butterfly casted aside everything she didn't want into that husk, some old thoughts, memories, ugliness, etc. James helped the butterfly evolve faster from it's cocoon by murdering Mary, then causing the persona split to occur that day.[/spoiler]

She's defiantly more than just a delusion.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Lxshr

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Lxshr on Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:20 pm

James's Psychiatrist wrote:I think your misinterpreting that passage. It's referring to the original idea of Silent Hill 2, in which was cancelled & rewritten.

I like your idea. However, I hope you don't mind that I expand from it?

[spoiler]Mary is a caterpillar. After she becomes sick & angry, she goes into a cocoon of loneliness (mentioned in James' letter from Mary). What comes out of this cocoon is Maria, the butterfly.

The butterfly casted aside everything she didn't want into that husk, some old thoughts, memories, ugliness, etc. James helped the butterfly evolve faster from it's cocoon by murdering Mary, then causing the persona split to occur that day.[/spoiler]



She's defiantly more than just a delusion.
[spoiler]about the bit about a split persona. are you saying that its posable that her sould was split like alessas? i find that unlikely (yet maby possable)[/spoiler]
 
 
 
 
 
 

Conjurer

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Post by Conjurer on Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:35 pm

Lxshr wrote:about the bit about a split persona. are you saying that its posable that her sould was split like alessas? i find that unlikely (yet maby possable)
Not exactly. More like a seperation of thoughts/personalities/emotions or something.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Lilith

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Post by Lilith on Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:43 pm

Yeah kinda of like a split of Cheryl, you could defenately interpate it that way.

Cheryl was the side that wanted life, Alessa the side that wanted death.
Mary is more like the Alessa side, and Maria would be her supprassed self. Two sides of a coin.

This would also be why Maria is not considered a "sinner" in any way by Xuchilpaba.

JP I do think it means that intention, besides what is written in that LM statement there is no other proof of a scrapped idea like that. If it does, well then I would think they may have intended mary has a playable charcter but the storylin remained, or you know the passgae could actually be refering to BFAW senrio in itself because that senerio was not included in the first editions of Sh2, thus would be "scrapped". that' probaly what they meant. technally Born from a wish, would be the first senerio as it takes place BEFORE James's main storyline.
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Ramen

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Ramen on Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:13 pm

I wish she didn't throw her revolver away..

...and what did she do with all those first-aid kits? I could have used those!
 
 
 
 
 
 

fygar

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by fygar on Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:23 pm

Isn't it already established that there are spoilers in this Post? I can barely read that damn spoiler text with this monitor of mine...

I think Born from a Wish shows how Mary is coerced into befriending and manipulating James throughout his ordeal in Silent Hill. I think that Ernest's role in this situation is to prep Mary for her mission, even despite the fact that he has an agenda of his own. The forces at work here seem adept at finding dual purposes with the souls and humans trapped in the town. Ernest could very well be alive, but just invisible to Mary b/c she's only supposed to interact with him briefly.

What I think is interesting, though, is that when she wakes up she has a gun. Could she have killed herself in a previous life and then been resurrected in another form to be used by the forces at work in the town? She makes a comment about wanting to kill herself b/c she is alone and scared before she sets out, and I have to wonder if she actually did this when she was human and now her soul is trapped in the town to be used at will.

So, I agree with the theory that Mary could very well be a tragic character herself and not just another demon created for the sole purpose of giving James a headache. And if we go with the theory that Mary could be either human or once human, what does that mean for Eddie and Angela?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Ramen

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Ramen on Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:56 pm

I love how it raises more questions than gives answers..
 
 
 
 
 
 

Devoured

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Born from a Wish. (Spoilers.)

Post by Devoured on Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:13 am

I have never considered the options that Maria was once 'her own person'. Maria has definetly been molded from Mary's image, to be what she could not be - she has her own thoughts and views, and I believe she has no evil scheme or anything - she just knows she wants or needs James, and she'll do everything to get him. Her talking about wanting to die seems to be a part of SH2's Eros/Thanatos theme, plus it kinda cofirms her role - she's always assuming the position of the maiden that needs to be saved, kinda apathetic, dependant on the male role, which all makes me believe Laura is not a real person either, but rather another side of Mary, or something Mary wanted [Mary states in her letter that she could never repay him for what he's done for her, how could she repay him? Laura and Mary are never really seen inter-acting together, when one's coming, the other's leaving, and Maria makes's some strange remarks - James calls Laura a little girl when he first meets her properly, at that big wall Maria co-incidentally threw away her 'will to die/gun', later on Maria asks James how a little girl like her's supposed to help, etc, there's more...]...Laura is the opposite of Maria in many ways, she doesn't mind roaming around alone, she's very full of life and independant, whereas Maria seems to lack all these features [you're supposed to take care of me!], the sub-scenario sheds some more light into this. Ernest seems to be, if you ask me, just a side character, with no real plans surrounding Maria and/or James, he provides a sort of objective opinion on James, but Maria refuses to listen to his advice, all she feels is the desire to be with James, even though 'he killed her', and later on, gets her killed again...
 
 
 
 
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