Pazuzu

Member

Posts: 183

Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Pazuzu on Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:47 pm

That'd be awesome to see the two of them sword-fighting with the Great Knives. I can't recall if the fan art I saw that I mentioned in the original post depicted it like that.

If Harry dies during an encounter with PH, he certainly wouldn't do so without putting up a serious fight. Even if PH can't truly be killed, could he tire out to the point of retreating and essentially having to concede? Harry doesn't give up or stop for anything.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6677

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Otherworld on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:45 pm

Haha, jokes about the sword fight.

In all seriousness, PH stops when the reason for him existing has been realized. Until that time, I believe he is truly invincible.

The only time we see PH stop is when he chooses to take his own life.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Royal Fizzbin

Member

User avatar

living that lie

Posts: 50

Joined: Oct 21, 2015

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Royal Fizzbin on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:30 pm

We know that it is possible for a person to cross over into someone else’s Silent Hill experience. James crossed into Angela’s world several times. Angela was tormented by the pain she carried within herself and it manifested as the abstract daddy. Maybe since she was the point of origin projecting the abstract daddy, she couldn’t kill it. But to James crossing into her world the abstract daddy had no special significance to him and so was just another monster that he could and did kill in battle (although more continue to appear later on). Is this possible with James and pyramid head, that James can’t kill the monster he carries within himself and continues to project? But for someone else who happened to cross into James Silent Hill and encounter pyramid head, maybe for them having no personal significance pyramid head might be quite defeatable. Thoughts?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Pazuzu

Member

Posts: 183

Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Pazuzu on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:08 am

That's a good way to look at it and perhaps could make PH vulnerable to another character. James carried a certain guilt and darkness within him that PH personally manifested, and PH in many ways was a dark mirror of James himself, but PH's image and purpose is designed after the executioners of Silent Hill and going by the painting of him in the Gillespie home in Origins, he clearly has existed before James. If somehow PH could cross over into Harry's Silent Hill (or Alessa's more accurately, which is what we saw in SH1) or vice versa, he may find himself in for a surprising resilient foe in Harry. Thing is Harry is hardly a bad guy and doesn't harbor the same guilt and darkness James did, so what's his purpose for going after Harry? Is he manipulated by Dahlia into obstructing his progress? Is he acting purely on instinct at that point?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6677

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Otherworld on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:03 am

Royal Fizzbin wrote:We know that it is possible for a person to cross over into someone else’s Silent Hill experience. James crossed into Angela’s world several times. Angela was tormented by the pain she carried within herself and it manifested as the abstract daddy. Maybe since she was the point of origin projecting the abstract daddy, she couldn’t kill it. But to James crossing into her world the abstract daddy had no special significance to him and so was just another monster that he could and did kill in battle (although more continue to appear later on). Is this possible with James and pyramid head, that James can’t kill the monster he carries within himself and continues to project? But for someone else who happened to cross into James Silent Hill and encounter pyramid head, maybe for them having no personal significance pyramid head might be quite defeatable. Thoughts?


A good point, but let's not forget, Pyramid Head is heavily entrenched in towns lore as far as there being punishment for sinners.

Image

BoLM quote
"Pyramid head." Takes the appearance of an executioner of times past.


Because of the above you can't really compare PH to other creatures such as Abstract Daddy.

Pazuzu wrote:That's a good way to look at it and perhaps could make PH vulnerable to another character. James carried a certain guilt and darkness within him that PH personally manifested, and PH in many ways was a dark mirror of James himself, but PH's image and purpose is designed after the executioners of Silent Hill and going by the painting of him in the Gillespie home in Origins, he clearly has existed before James. If somehow PH could cross over into Harry's Silent Hill (or Alessa's more accurately, which is what we saw in SH1) or vice versa, he may find himself in for a surprising resilient foe in Harry. Thing is Harry is hardly a bad guy and doesn't harbor the same guilt and darkness James did, so what's his purpose for going after Harry? Is he manipulated by Dahlia into obstructing his progress? Is he acting purely on instinct at that point?


The truth is, as far as the way the towns power uses PH, there really is no reason for Harry to encounter him at all.

Harry went to Silent Hill for a vacation with his daughter.

Image

James went to Silent Hill to end his life and was called to the otherworld because of the darkness in his heart.

Image
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Royal Fizzbin

Member

User avatar

living that lie

Posts: 50

Joined: Oct 21, 2015

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Royal Fizzbin on Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:40 pm

Pazuzu wrote:...but PH's image and purpose is designed after the executioners of Silent Hill and going by the painting of him in the Gillespie home in Origins, he clearly has existed before James.


Otherworld wrote:A good point, but let's not forget, Pyramid Head is heavily entrenched in towns lore as far as there being punishment for sinners.


That painting struck me as more of an easteregg kind of thing than an actual suggestion of Pyramid Head’s presence in Origins timeframe. Kind of like how South Ashfield apartment room 302 appears in Silent Hill: Downpour. But I could be wrong.

Sure PH manifests elements of the executioners which were real beings who long predate the events of Silent Hill 2, but PH isn’t an executioner from the past, he’s clearly the guilt monster manifesting from James for James. James was an executioner himself, so it only makes sense that what haunts him personally takes that form. James can’t kill the monster so long as it continues to live in him. So, to beat a dead horse, PH as we understand him from Silent Hill 2 really only belongs in James journey through SH2. The only way anyone else should ever really encounter him would be for them to cross into James SH experience in much the same way James crossed into Angela’s and fought her monster.

Going back to Origins, Travis had a punisher of his own (perhaps depending on our understanding of Travis’s past), and it didn’t manifest as Pyramid Head. Murphy from Downpour carried a monster with him, and it also didn’t manifest as Pyramid Head. Each person is unique in transgression, sorrow, fears, and pain. If what they carry with them into Silent Hill is unique, then what they project should also be unique to them personally. And in my mind, the Abstract Daddy is for Angela essentially what Pyramid Head was for James. It’s the thing that haunts or torments her the most, even after James kills it, it still continues to manifest later in the game while Angela is around in the general area.

Now, I concede I could be completely wrong in all this, but it’s what makes sense in my head. But I still think if events just so happened that Harry crossed into James Silent Hill and encountered Pyramid Head, that to Harry it’d be a killable monster.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Pazuzu

Member

Posts: 183

Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Pazuzu on Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:55 pm

Going by PH's appearance in Homecoming, he still exists post-SH2 and independent of James. If we disregard the painting in Origins, I think it's possible perhaps somehow the manifestation of PH after the events of SH2 became independent and no longer needed James. Maybe his energy was strong enough for him to go on without James? James during his last battle essentially cuts the cord with PH but who's to say the cord didn't get plugged into a different outlet that enables PH to continue on after SH2 and James. I buy what the SH wikia says that the PH as seen in Homecoming likely had a new purpose and duty, however I also buy that the particular PH we saw in SH2 was an exclusive tormentor for James, though the concept in general of PH isn't James-only, only the one seen in SH2. Much of this is open to personal interpretation (which IMO is part of the allure of this series, the fact we still find so much to look into with the series all these years later).

It's interesting to imagine how things might go if Harry and James somehow crossed into each other's SH misadventures. I always kind of like to imagine PH being present somehow during the events of the first game, albeit not involved with Harry's quest to find Cheryl as Harry doesn't harbor the inner turmoil James did.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6677

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Otherworld on Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:42 am

Royal Fizzbin wrote:
Pazuzu wrote:...but PH's image and purpose is designed after the executioners of Silent Hill and going by the painting of him in the Gillespie home in Origins, he clearly has existed before James.


Otherworld wrote:A good point, but let's not forget, Pyramid Head is heavily entrenched in towns lore as far as there being punishment for sinners.


That painting struck me as more of an easteregg kind of thing than an actual suggestion of Pyramid Head’s presence in Origins timeframe. Kind of like how South Ashfield apartment room 302 appears in Silent Hill: Downpour. But I could be wrong.


I believe that the picture is no eater egg. It seems to be part of the towns lore.

Royal Fizzbin wrote:Sure PH manifests elements of the executioners which were real beings who long predate the events of Silent Hill 2, but PH isn’t an executioner from the past, he’s clearly the guilt monster manifesting from James for James. James was an executioner himself, so it only makes sense that what haunts him personally takes that form. James can’t kill the monster so long as it continues to live in him. So, to beat a dead horse, PH as we understand him from Silent Hill 2 really only belongs in James journey through SH2. The only way anyone else should ever really encounter him would be for them to cross into James SH experience in much the same way James crossed into Angela’s and fought her monster.


PH is directly connected to Valtiel himself. The particular PH that we see in SH2 is specifically for James, but, the form of an executioner type monster seems to be the over all theme of this monster in Silent Hill. Be it the Butcher, Boogeyman, or PH. Whether Abstract Daddy is modelled after this entity is only a question the creator can answer. But from what is written in the Book of Lost Memories about both monsters it seems clear that PH has a lot more significance to the lore of the town, as Abstarct Daddy is a symbol of Angela past.

BoLM quotes:

RED PYRAMID THING
Area: Apartment building, hotel
Character : With Great Knife and spear, he stalks Maria unrelentingly
Metaphor: "Pyramid head." Takes the appearance of an executioner of times past, but is actually incarnated from the part of James' consciousness that feels that he deserves punishment.

ABSTRACT DADDY
Area: Labyrinth, hotel
Character: Attacks by attempting to grab and envelop its victim
Metaphor: "Ideal father." On top of its bed-like form are two covered reclining figures. A symbol of Angela's past.


Royal Fizzbin wrote:Going back to Origins, Travis had a punisher of his own (perhaps depending on our understanding of Travis’s past), and it didn’t manifest as Pyramid Head. Murphy from Downpour carried a monster with him, and it also didn’t manifest as Pyramid Head. Each person is unique in transgression, sorrow, fears, and pain. If what they carry with them into Silent Hill is unique, then what they project should also be unique to them personally. And in my mind, the Abstract Daddy is for Angela essentially what Pyramid Head was for James. It’s the thing that haunts or torments her the most, even after James kills it, it still continues to manifest later in the game while Angela is around in the general area.


This may be the case, as I understand the logic. Thing is, nowhere has the Abstract Daddy monster been directly tied to an executioner type monster like the Butcher, PH, or the Boogeyman. The creators would be the only ones that can answer this question.

Royal Fizzbin wrote:Now, I concede I could be completely wrong in all this, but it’s what makes sense in my head. But I still think if events just so happened that Harry crossed into James Silent Hill and encountered Pyramid Head, that to Harry it’d be a killable monster.


What we must also remember is that Harry is killed by the Missionary. My feeling is that PH may be a little more powerful than him. But that is just me.

Pazuzu wrote:Going by PH's appearance in Homecoming, he still exists post-SH2 and independent of James. If we disregard the painting in Origins, I think it's possible perhaps somehow the manifestation of PH after the events of SH2 became independent and no longer needed James. Maybe his energy was strong enough for him to go on without James? James during his last battle essentially cuts the cord with PH but who's to say the cord didn't get plugged into a different outlet that enables PH to continue on after SH2 and James. I buy what the SH wikia says that the PH as seen in Homecoming likely had a new purpose and duty, however I also buy that the particular PH we saw in SH2 was an exclusive tormentor for James, though the concept in general of PH isn't James-only, only the one seen in SH2. Much of this is open to personal interpretation (which IMO is part of the allure of this series, the fact we still find so much to look into with the series all these years later).


In Silent Hill, many of the different monsters are used multiple times. PH is a special case as he is tied to Valtiel. But after the town has manifested a monster, no matter for who, it chooses when and where to use that monster again. As seen with nurses, bugs, dogs and Closers.

Pazuzu wrote:It's interesting to imagine how things might go if Harry and James somehow crossed into each other's SH misadventures. I always kind of like to imagine PH being present somehow during the events of the first game, albeit not involved with Harry's quest to find Cheryl as Harry doesn't harbor the inner turmoil James did.


Maybe Harry would encounter PH just as Alex did in Homecoming.

Image
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Pazuzu

Member

Posts: 183

Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Pazuzu on Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:11 pm

I don't believe the Origins painting is a mere Easter Egg either, I think there's a significance to it. I didn't even think about the re-use of the other monsters like the bugs, nurses, dogs, etc. but that's a good point. Just like with the post-SH2 appearances of PH, these monsters all had unique variations in their subsequent appearances and a different meaning for the person who encountered them. I don't believe the general concept and image of PH is exclusive to James although the particular one in SH2 is. I've seen some speculation only James is able to see the painting in the Historical Society but there's no real evidence to suggest only he's seeing it.

I could see Harry somehow just stumbling onto PH. Maybe for whatever reason PH would be in Old Silent Hill while Harry is still searching for Cheryl. I could see Harry in some locale like Midwich or Alchemilla, and we hear the signature lumbering footsteps and the crude dragging of the sword along the ground as PH emerges from the shadows. Which in itself is a pretty terrifying sight to imagine.

Another aspect of relating PH to the events of the first game, might he perhaps go after Lisa? Lisa seems to harbor a certain guilty conscience going by her diary and the contents of the video tape over her care of Alessa and the Cage Of Cradle comic seems to imply she suffocated Alessa as a mercy killing (whether this is canon is up in the air). I could see Lisa harboring terrible guilt and remorse over that, so perhaps that right there leaves her vulnerable for PH. She doesn't harbor quite the same baggage James did in SH2, but that would still be something that in the back of one's mind would weigh down their conscience. Who's to say during the events of SH1 Lisa hasn't seen PH and is hiding from him. That kind of puts an interesting new perspective to look at some of SH1's events.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Royal Fizzbin

Member

User avatar

living that lie

Posts: 50

Joined: Oct 21, 2015

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Royal Fizzbin on Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:52 pm

Otherworld wrote:I believe that the picture is no eater egg. It seems to be part of the towns lore.... PH is directly connected to Valtiel himself. The particular PH that we see in SH2 is specifically for James, but, the form of an executioner type monster seems to be the over all theme of this monster in Silent Hill. Be it the Butcher, Boogeyman, or PH. Whether Abstract Daddy is modelled after this entity is only a question the creator can answer. But from what is written in the Book of Lost Memories about both monsters it seems clear that PH has a lot more significance to the lore of the town, as Abstarct Daddy is a symbol of Angela past.


I guess I can live with “a” Pyramid Head perpetually existing in Silent Hill, just so long as it’s not “the” Pyramid Head specific to James from SH2. Hell, that might even be a good in universe explanation of why Pyramid Head in Homecoming looks nothing like Pyramid Head in SH2, because he isn’t the same one.

Otherworld wrote:This may be the case, as I understand the logic. Thing is, nowhere has the Abstract Daddy monster been directly tied to an executioner type monster like the Butcher, PH, or the Boogeyman. The creators would be the only ones that can answer this question.


I genuinely apologize for taking us off topic, but feel the need to touch on this one a bit more.

While not explicitly stated, it seems strongly implied to me. If we are to understand that The Abstract Daddy represents a father doing one of the most heinous acts a parent could ever do to their child, and one of the two covered figures represents Angela’s father, then it seems the other covered figure is in fact Angela. She is part of her monster, just like James is part of his monster. At one point she even tells James, "You're the same as me…” and, “it's what we deserve.” And what was the ultimate fate of her father? It would seem Angela killed or executed him. James kills his beloved wife and in Silent Hill is punished by Pyramid Head who essentially represents James at his worst moment in life, forcing James to repeatedly relive that moment. For Angela her worst moment in life wasn’t killing her father, she hated her father. Her worst moments were the times her daddy abused her, that is what ruined her. Therefore her punisher would be The Abstract Daddy forcing her to repeatedly relive those worst moments. James subconsciously hates himself for what he did, Angela more openly hates herself not for what she did but for what was done to her as well as the understanding that she was fathered by the monster, she is a part of him which is a truth she’ll never kill away or escape from. Again, I could be way off on all this, and sorry if I am, but it just makes perfect sense to me. We only see her a few brief times in the game, so her story is less of a straightforward thing and more of a connect-the-dots kind of thing. But this is just the way the dots work in my head, but you’re right, only the creators could spell it out.

Otherworld wrote:What we must also remember is that Harry is killed by the Missionary. My feeling is that PH may be a little more powerful than him. But that is just me.


I’d completely agree. Even if Pyramid Head could be defeated, he’d likely be incredibly difficult. But about the Missionary, if I remember right Harry was dead in his armchair, which always made me wonder if he wasn’t snuck up on and killed before he even knew it was happening. Or maybe even killed in his sleep.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Pazuzu

Member

Posts: 183

Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Pazuzu on Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:59 pm

Royal Fizzbin wrote:I guess I can live with “a” Pyramid Head perpetually existing in Silent Hill, just so long as it’s not “the” Pyramid Head specific to James from SH2. Hell, that might even be a good in universe explanation of why Pyramid Head in Homecoming looks nothing like Pyramid Head in SH2, because he isn’t the same one.



As I said, I agree the particular PH seen in SH2 is exclusive and unique to James, and I think that's a really good explanation as to how the different PHs we see look different. I think even the PH seen in Homecoming could be unique to Alex. I think whoever encounters PH could well have their own unique version of him who's personalized for them depending on their transgressions and psychological state. I said it before, but the concept and image of PH in general I feel is something anyone can experience, but each person has their own unique version and experience with him, as James did in SH2.


Royal Fizzbin wrote:I’d completely agree. Even if Pyramid Head could be defeated, he’d likely be incredibly difficult. But about the Missionary, if I remember right Harry was dead in his armchair, which always made me wonder if he wasn’t snuck up on and killed before he even knew it was happening. Or maybe even killed in his sleep.



I figured Harry was probably killed in his sleep and didn't so much as get a chance to defend himself, or he was taken offguard in a vulnerable state with no means of being able to defend himself. Who knows if he could've lasted in battle against the Missionary. Thing with Harry against PH is what weapons would he use? In SH2 James can use the handgun, shotgun, rifle, chainsaw or Great Knife. Harry has the likes of the emergency hammer, rock drill, Hyper Blaster, etc. The green beam Hyper Blaster is very powerful, could it potentially kill or at least seriously injure PH?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Royal Fizzbin

Member

User avatar

living that lie

Posts: 50

Joined: Oct 21, 2015

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Royal Fizzbin on Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:11 am

Pazuzu wrote:... I think even the PH seen in Homecoming could be unique to Alex. ...


I don’t know, in Homecoming Pyramid Head doesn’t really seem all that interested in Alex (unless you get the bad ending), but man oh man did PH ever have a bone to pick with Adam!

Pazuzu wrote:... Thing with Harry against PH is what weapons would he use? In SH2 James can use the handgun, shotgun, rifle, chainsaw or Great Knife. Harry has the likes of the emergency hammer, rock drill, Hyper Blaster, etc. The green beam Hyper Blaster is very powerful, could it potentially kill or at least seriously injure PH?


Tactic might play an important role. PH seems to have one speed, slow. And if his weapon of choice is the great knife, although incredibly powerful it being large and unwieldy has a slow attack that he broadcasts with a windup and that’s quite avoidable. PH (at least as depicted in the movie and homecoming) has incredible strength, able to easily deathgrip victims and peel them like a blanched tomato. So it seems like the best tactic to employ is to engage him in a large easily navigable space if possible. Stay light on your feet and mobile, stick and move. Fall way back when he winds up for the great knife attack. Stay out of arms reach and use ranged weapons.

The movie shows a few rounds from a police issued handgun injuring PH’s arm, I don’t know for sure but that might have been something like a Glock 9MM. Firearms being the preferable traditional weapon, the higher the caliber the better, and if possible maybe even using military grade hardware with armor piercing, explosive, or incendiary rounds. This could conceivably take a heavy toll on PH or maybe even put him down completely.

There’s also the option of employing less orthodox guerrilla tactics, like setting explosive traps (IEDs) and luring PH into them.

There are even powerful otherworldly weapons of Silent Hill available. If some form of all these punishers are now freely roaming the otherworld independent of their original projector and purpose, then why not try to get the Bogeyman's Hammer and use it on PH? Or other special weapons, because if some form of these monsters continue on in the otherworld, then it’s not a stretch to conclude that some form of these special weapons also exist. Weapons like the aforementioned Hyper Blaster, or the beam saber, or the Moon Gauntlets, as these might very well do the trick. If Harry could get his hands on some of these he might be in good shape against PH.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Pazuzu

Member

Posts: 183

Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Pazuzu on Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:32 am

Not sure if I'd go by anything seen in the movies as they're a completely seperate and different canon from the games and their lore isn't quite the same as the games. However PH in both is extremely strong and even if he feels pain he seems pretty indestructible and unkillable, unless he has hidden weak points we've yet to see. I got to wonder if perhaps under his helmet with his actual face whatever it may be could be his weak spot and the trick to getting him in an exposed state where he could be defeated is to remove his helmet, which isn't easy given his immense strength and the inherent risks of trying to remove the helmet. The helmet is clearly held in place by the knob-type device on the back, perhaps turning that unlocks the helmet and thus unmasks PH? Nothing states this of course but interesting to speculate if under his helmet could be his Achilles heel.

Although Rambo he isn't, Harry certainly held his own during the course of SH1 and is quick to learn how to make use of his arsenal and he held his own against some incredibly deadly monsters, such as Split Head, the Hanged Scratchers, Rompers and the Night Flutters. I don't think it's unfeasible to think if he encountered PH he'd quickly figure out a strategy of sorts he could employ to use against PH. Also taking into PH's extremely slow speed, unless Harry is boxed in with him in a very small space, he'd have a speed and movement advantage over him so long as he keeps a distance and avoids being grabbed and the Great Knife swipes. I too have to wonder how some of the other weapons such as the flamethrower and Moon Gauntlets could potentially affect PH. The impact of these weapons is decidely different from a shot, strike or cutting wound which is what we've seen James inflict onto him.

I still got to wonder about the connection PH may share with the Gillespies going by the painting in Origins and how it could factor into a potential encounter Harry could have with him.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Royal Fizzbin

Member

User avatar

living that lie

Posts: 50

Joined: Oct 21, 2015

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Royal Fizzbin on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:06 pm

Pazuzu wrote:Not sure if I'd go by anything seen in the movies as they're a completely seperate and different canon from the games and their lore isn't quite the same as the games. ...


Well then, the problem becomes this, if we aren’t going by the PH of SH2 which we already established is a James specific being, and we aren’t going by the PH of the movie because if it being separate universe. Then what PH does that leave us with? Just the one we see briefly in Homecoming, which we know very little about. If that is to be understood as his final form as the self-contained wandering executioner of the otherworld that has ties to the order and the actual executioners of the past, okay I guess. But we don’t see anyone or anything engage in combat with him, in the game, ever. Maybe he is invincible, or maybe it’s as simple as throwing a banana peel in his path and taking out his knees. We just don’t know as that particular game gives zero indication.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Pazuzu

Member

Posts: 183

Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Pazuzu on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:09 pm

I believe each individual PH is different and unique from one another; Jame's version in SH2 was his own, the Homecoming one was for either Alex or Adam, but I have to wonder if there's a plain "default" PH in a way who isn't personalized for anybody and is just there. One thing noticable about the film version is while still slow and lumbering, he's a bit more nimble overall than his game counterpart and noticably more brutish. I think the film version is the one we can use for this battle and it'd probably make for a more interesting battle anyway, as the film PH is swifter and deadlier.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6677

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Otherworld on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:41 am

The executioner type monster should only be around when the power of the town feels it is needed to deal with any individual that has been called. I do not think that PH is just walking around town waiting for someone to show up.

The PH in HC is tied to Adam.

All that being said, if an executioner type monster shows up for Harry that means the towns power is trying to punish Harry for his sins. And if this is the case, Harry has no chance in the defeating the monster in a fight.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Pazuzu

Member

Posts: 183

Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Pazuzu on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:48 pm

Harry as we saw him in SH1 was as good a guy as you can get, so SH has no need to punish him for any wrongdoing and thus PH wasn't needed. Now the Shattered Memories version of Harry depending on the choices made, maybe that one could attract the wrath of PH. And if so, the SM Harry can't defend himself nearly as well in battle. I too also don't believe PH just wanders around town looking for someone to punish, he awaits to be called before carrying out his duty. Doesn't the White Hunter comic even suggest this?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Royal Fizzbin

Member

User avatar

living that lie

Posts: 50

Joined: Oct 21, 2015

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Royal Fizzbin on Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:08 am

How about an alternate timeline where Harry was alive and present during the events of Homecoming? It seems in that game Silent Hill is unleashing the monsters indiscriminately on everyone in the area, because the founders descendants failed to fulfill their sacrifice quota. We know that Pyramid Head definitely got Adam, but I seem to remember finding other bodies in the game cleaved in two hinting at the probability that PH had been through the area doing some meat work.

Also Homecoming would seem to support my earlier hypothesis that one person can indeed cross over into another person’s experience and fight and kill that other person’s guilt monster. Alex does exactly this at least 3 times with Sepulcher, Scarlet, and Asphyxia. None of these were his monsters, but he fought and killed each one of them. And thinking about this leads me to a question, why did Alex fight these three guilt monsters, but he doesn’t fight the fourth which was The Bogeyman (PH) who killed his father? Strange design choice. I’ve never really thought about that until now.

But in any event, if Harry were around during Homecoming it might be his chance to have a go at Pyramid Head.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Pazuzu

Member

Posts: 183

Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Pazuzu on Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:21 am

That could possibly work but we'd have to think of a reason as to how and why Harry would be back in SH during the Homecoming timeframe. A page back I suggested perhaps another SH1 character might be experiencing PH if they've done something to merit him coming after them and I suggested it could be Lisa as she may harbor some inner turmoil that could potentially warrant PH on her tail. If this is the case and she'd indeed trying to evade PH, then Harry could well encounter him that way.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Otherworld

Member

User avatar

I'm going to town either way ...

Posts: 6677

Joined: Oct 11, 2013

Location: Canada

Harry Mason Vs. Pyramid Head

Post by Otherworld on Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:36 am

Royal Fizzbin wrote:How about an alternate timeline where Harry was alive and present during the events of Homecoming? It seems in that game Silent Hill is unleashing the monsters indiscriminately on everyone in the area, because the founders descendants failed to fulfill their sacrifice quota. We know that Pyramid Head definitely got Adam, but I seem to remember finding other bodies in the game cleaved in two hinting at the probability that PH had been through the area doing some meat work.


Those other bodies, if I am not mistaken, are all models of Adam. In fact, the man standing over Alex in the beginning cut scene is a model of Adam and PH kills right away.

Royal Fizzbin wrote:Also Homecoming would seem to support my earlier hypothesis that one person can indeed cross over into another person’s experience and fight and kill that other person’s guilt monster. Alex does exactly this at least 3 times with Sepulcher, Scarlet, and Asphyxia. None of these were his monsters, but he fought and killed each one of them. And thinking about this leads me to a question, why did Alex fight these three guilt monsters, but he doesn’t fight the fourth which was The Bogeyman (PH) who killed his father? Strange design choice. I’ve never really thought about that until now.

But in any event, if Harry were around during Homecoming it might be his chance to have a go at Pyramid Head.


This really goes back to the same question asked about Abstract Daddy as well. James kills AD so we want to compare Abstract Daddy, Sepulcher, Scarlet, and Asphyxia to PH (the executioner type monster) but we cannot because only PH (the executioner type monster) is directly tied to Vatiel.

The other monsters are not.

Pazuzu wrote:That could possibly work but we'd have to think of a reason as to how and why Harry would be back in SH during the Homecoming timeframe. A page back I suggested perhaps another SH1 character might be experiencing PH if they've done something to merit him coming after them and I suggested it could be Lisa as she may harbor some inner turmoil that could potentially warrant PH on her tail. If this is the case and she'd indeed trying to evade PH, then Harry could well encounter him that way.


I understand your point here but the Silent Hill that calls those with darkness in their hearts does not exist until after all the events of the 1st game are complete.

BoLM quotes:

Power of the Town

Originally Silent Hill was a holy place to the area's former inhabitants. It would seem that although the power of the town was not evil in nature, due to a number of factors including the spread of an epidemic and executions at the prison, the power that this place held was greatly distorted. Furthermore, due to the large-scale shift to the otherworld that occurred in the first game, the town has become a great catalyst for the manifestation of peoples' unconscious minds. It appears to have become a place that beckons to those who hold darkness in their hearts.

Calling
Those who have guilt are summoned

Due to the appearance of the otherworld on a massive scale in the first game, the town has come to be a place that calls those who hold a profound darkness in their hearts. It seems that people with afflicted minds are easily drawn to the otherworld.


This leaves us to question why the Butcher exists during Origins. The Silent Wiki give us this.

Silent Hill Wiki quote:

Symbolism
The Butcher

The Butcher represents cruelty and sacrifice, particularly that of the Order. His calm, emotionless torturing and slaughtering of other monsters speaks of the Order's tendency to murder and sacrifice human life for their worship. The Butcher also represents Travis's inner rage and pent-up anger, and so is involved heavily in the Bad Ending.

The Butcher may actually represent Travis himself, as implied by the various voices heard during the Bad Ending, Travis's face blurring into the Butcher's, as well as by the description of the Butcher accolade. The helmet that covers half of his head could possibly symbolize a split personality; one half of the head is protected, but blind, and the other half is open, but vulnerable. Travis is shown to be an animal lover, and would probably find a butcher repulsive; therefore it follows that his split personality would be his complete opposite: a "butcher" who kills animals. A split personality is also described and directly implied by a note found in Artaud Theater.

"One personality continues to love the abuser and seek their approval. The other personality contains all the rage and anger of the abused and in many ways becomes a mirror of the abuser, seeking to inflict its pain on others."
There is another possibility that the Butcher represents what Travis fears about himself and/or what he could become. The Butcher's method of killing involves slicing through the reproductive organs of his victims, representing possible anger associated with repressed sexuality.



In the 1st game Lisa is paying for whatever sins she has committed during Alessa's hospital stay during the events of the first game anyway so there is really no need for PH to show up.

Image
Image
 
 
 
PreviousNext


Return to Silent Hill



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests