Giromancy

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Beta Monsters Textures

Post by Giromancy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:45 pm

Hi guys, i´ve recently realized that there are two textures of Beta monsters left in the NTSC cd version of
the game, if you explore the CD you will find these images with the following names:

Image

Image

Now let's take a closer look. This is a comparison between Orange Child beta texture between Grey Child final texture:
Image
Notice the different skin color, the orange child it resemble more like a human skin, in the left image below, you can see the face has eyes and a different mouth compared with the final texture in the right side. Now another thing is that the beta texture also has completely naked body, in the final texture we can see some kind of ¨belts¨ grabbed in his chest:

Image

Now, if we look the screens from the E3 1998 trailer, we can see a similar monster in wich also has orange skin, and it has eyes and mouth in his face:
Image

Image

But im not quite sure about this because of his head form
Image

In Nowhere, if we turn off the electricity in the Bethor Room and then go to the basement (classroom), we can find three enemies there, but they are different to the final Grey Child we all know, they have eyes and mouth like the orange child beta monster (texture)

Image
So this creature in the basement has a texture after all.

Now let's take a closer look to second creature, this one is the Beta Larval Stalker texture. The only footage we have of him is in the E3 1998 trailer:
Image

Image

Have you ever seen his face?........Here it is:
Image

Now, i wonder if it's possible to add this textures in the final game, it could be interesting to see.

By last, im not quite sure about this one, but it looks like a beta monster texture too, i repeat, im not 100% sure about this texture.

SILENT[891]p00
Image

What do you think guys?
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Image Image Image
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Naroon

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Post by Naroon on Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:51 pm

Ah yes, I remember the reasoning they had for changing the textures. Basically the Orange/Grey Child creatures got changed around because some committee or something was butthurt that the creature looked too "child-like" (derp), so they removed the eyes and changed the color of the creature to dispel those concerns. Although I think this censorship was only done in the NTSC-U/C version, correct me if I'm wrong?

Anyway, the black basement creature looks that way because it's essentially a "ghost" version of the Grey Child or something. They opted to keep the eyes for it, on the grounds that the creatures don't attack the player and can't be attacked (although I think these creatures appear later in the game and can indeed attack/be attacked, IIRC, oddly enough...) They were kinda cute in a morbid sort of way, making those squeaking sounds and tripping and falling down sometimes, lol.

I'm not too sure about the last one, what it could've/would've been. It sort of looks like a humanoid head being viewed from the side. Perhaps this would've been used for one of the wall textures or something, like the stretched-skin-style things already present in the final game.
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Alistair

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Beta Monsters Textures

Post by Alistair on Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:01 am

Those beta monsters are creepy... :shock:
Image
 
 
 
 
 

Roden

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Post by Roden on Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:19 pm

Cool finds. Do any of these textures (and I guess, models even) exist in the demo CDs?
 
 
 
 
 
 

PaulSilentin

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Post by PaulSilentin on Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:52 pm

Roden wrote:Do any of these textures (and I guess, models even) exist in the demo CDs?

Here you can have all textures from "CHARA" folder of OPM16 and retail JAP SH version in TIM format (CharlesM new sh extractor). Textures marked as "CLD1-3" is about this thread. I will try to restore beta models later with model replacement and stuff.

https://www.mediafire.com/?vbzbi63vh05ltui
 
 
 
 
 

Giromancy

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Post by Giromancy on Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:34 pm

PaulSilentin wrote:Here you can have all textures from "CHARA" folder of OPM16 and retail JAP SH version in TIM format (CharlesM new sh extractor). Textures marked as "CLD1-3" is about this thread.


I wonder who are these characters:
Image
One of them looks like Andy from SHPN:
Image


PaulSilentin wrote:I will try to restore beta models later with model replacement and stuff.


That would be great, hope you can do it.
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PaulSilentin

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Post by PaulSilentin on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:29 pm

Giromancy wrote:I wonder who are these characters:

here my own models list, it is not complete, you can help me to add unknown lines
REVEAL SPOILER
Code: Select all
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\AR.ILM      Alessa Gillespie (in teen age)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BAR.ILM      (woman?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BD2.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BFLU.ILM      Flauros
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BIG.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BIRD.ILM      (Air Screamer? - bird)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BLISA.ILM   Lisa Garland (bloody version)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BOS.ILM      Incubus(Samael, enemy boss)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BOS2.ILM      Incubator (Alessa white, enemy boss)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BTFY.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CAT.ILM      cat
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CKN.ILM      Air Screamer (bird normal, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CLD1.ILM      Larval Stalker (little child)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CLD2.ILM      Demon Child/Invisible Demon Child (old child, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CLD3.ILM      Demon Child/Invisible Demon Child (USA censored child, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CLD4.ILM      Mumbler
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\COC.ILM      Creeper (big cockroach, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DARIA.ILM   Dahlia Gillespie
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DEAD.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DG2.ILM      Wormhead (dog evil, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DOB.ILM      (man?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DOC.ILM      (man?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DOG.ILM      Groaner (dog normal, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DUMMY.ILM   placeholder
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\EI.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\FAT.ILM      (Split Head?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\FRG.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\HERO.ILM      Harry Mason
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\ICU.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\JACK.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\KAU.ILM      Michael Kaufmann (with case)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\LISA.ILM      Lisa Garland (normal version)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\LITL.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MAN.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MAR.ILM      (Nurse?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MKY.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MSB.ILM      Cybil Bennet (Possessed version, enemy boss)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MTH.ILM      Floatstinger (giant mole or butterfly, enemy boss)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\OST.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\PRS.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\PRSD.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\ROD.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\SIBYL.ILM   Cybil Bennet (normal version)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\SLT.ILM      Hanged Scratcher (sewer spider, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\SNK.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\SRL.ILM      Cheryl Mason
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\TAR.ILM      Cheryl Mason (in Alessa school clothing)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\TDRA.ILM      Dahlia Gillespie (copy?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\WRM.ILM      Twinfeeler (worm from mall, enemy boss)
Giromancy wrote:
PaulSilentin wrote:I will try to restore beta models later with model replacement and stuff.

That would be great, hope you can do it.

Done. I will release *.ppf file with "beta mod" project in near-future.
Code: Select all
CHARA\CLD1.ILM      Larval Stalker (little child)
CHARA\CLD2.ILM      Demon Child/Invisible Demon Child (old child, enemy)
CHARA\CLD3.ILM      Demon Child/Invisible Demon Child (USA censored child, enemy)
CHARA\CLD4.ILM      Mumbler

REVEAL SPOILER
Image
here result of replacement of CLD4.ILM with CLD2.ILM in Japan version (in JP version there is Mumblers in school), transparency you can see, this is set inside of original ILM file, not by me:
Image
here result of replacement of CLD4.ILM with OMP16 CLD2.ILM file version, there is no transparency now, but seems like texture coordinates are broken, need more tests:
Image
finally "beta stalker". Imported CLD1.ILM from OPM16 demo to Japan retail version - result. Only one thing is changed - ILM transparency parameters, the texture is always was here:
Image
Last edited by PaulSilentin on Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:31 am.
 
 
 
 
 

Giromancy

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Beta Monsters Textures

Post by Giromancy on Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:49 am

PaulSilentin wrote:Done. I will release *.ppf file with "beta mod" project in near-future.
Code: Select all
CHARA\CLD1.ILM      Larval Stalker (little child)
CHARA\CLD2.ILM      Demon Child/Invisible Demon Child (old child, enemy)
CHARA\CLD3.ILM      Demon Child/Invisible Demon Child (USA censored child, enemy)
CHARA\CLD4.ILM      Mumbler

Image
here result of replacement of CLD4.ILM with CLD2.ILM in Japan version (in JP version there is Mumblers in school), transparency you can see, this is set inside of original ILM file, not by me:

This is a great work Paul :pirate: , well done. I see that the BETA larval texture fits perfect! , that´s amazing!.
Hope you can fix the others. Could you upload a bigger image of Larval Stalker? i can barely see it in that image.



PaulSilentin wrote:here my own models list, it is not complete, you can help me to add unknown lines
REVEAL SPOILER
Code: Select all
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\AR.ILM      Alessa Gillespie (in teen age)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BAR.ILM      (woman?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BD2.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BFLU.ILM      Flauros
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BIG.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BIRD.ILM      (Air Screamer? - bird)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BLISA.ILM   Lisa Garland (bloody version)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BOS.ILM      Incubus(Samael, enemy boss)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BOS2.ILM      Incubator (Alessa white, enemy boss)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\BTFY.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CAT.ILM      cat
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CKN.ILM      Air Screamer (bird normal, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CLD1.ILM      Larval Stalker (little child)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CLD2.ILM      Demon Child/Invisible Demon Child (old child, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CLD3.ILM      Demon Child/Invisible Demon Child (USA censored child, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\CLD4.ILM      Mumbler
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\COC.ILM      Creeper (big cockroach, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DARIA.ILM   Dahlia Gillespie
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DEAD.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DG2.ILM      Wormhead (dog evil, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DOB.ILM      (man?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DOC.ILM      (man?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DOG.ILM      Groaner (dog normal, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\DUMMY.ILM   placeholder
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\EI.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\FAT.ILM      (Split Head?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\FRG.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\HERO.ILM      Harry Mason
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\ICU.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\JACK.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\KAU.ILM      Michael Kaufmann (with case)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\LISA.ILM      Lisa Garland (normal version)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\LITL.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MAN.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MAR.ILM      (Nurse?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MKY.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MSB.ILM      Cybil Bennet (Possessed version, enemy boss)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\MTH.ILM      Floatstinger (giant mole or butterfly, enemy boss)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\OST.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\PRS.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\PRSD.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\ROD.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\SIBYL.ILM   Cybil Bennet (normal version)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\SLT.ILM      Hanged Scratcher (sewer spider, enemy)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\SNK.ILM      (?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\SRL.ILM      Cheryl Mason
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\TAR.ILM      Cheryl Mason (in Alessa school clothing)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\TDRA.ILM      Dahlia Gillespie (copy?)
c:\SH\ex\CHARA\WRM.ILM      Twinfeeler (worm from mall, enemy boss)


I can help you with this:

REVEAL SPOILER
BAR.ILM
Incubator with aglaophotis on her:
Image

DARIA.ILM & TDRA.ILM
DARIA.ILM texture has the Flauros and some kind of object that i don´t know what it is, maybe a key.
The TDRA.ILM it´s the same texture without the ¨key¨ and Flauros:
Image

DEAD.ILM
It´s the texture for the torsos that appear everywhere in the Alternate School:
Image

DOB.ILM & DOC.ILM
This textures are Doctor-B & Doctor-C, used in the cut-scene with Dahlia and Kauffman:
Image

ICU.ILM
Im not sure at all, but this texture seems to be the same to Cybil parasite, sadly, the cut-scene
dont show the face completely, but it looks it has the same face like in the texture:
Image
Image

JACK.ILM
Romper creature:
Image

MAR.ILM
It´s the same texture to BAR.ILM with Incubator but without the aglaophotis on her
Image

PRS.ILM
This texture is for the Puppet Nurses, and this is funny because i realize now that there are three
different types of nurses, each one with different face and hair color, and one of her has a barrette too.
I knew about the different color of her clothes (green and blue) but this is new for me :mrgreen:
Image

PRSD.ILM
Parasitized Doctor, like the nurses too, there are three types of doctors, but this one has three types
of faces only, no hair changes.
Image

ROD.ILM
This was hard for me to find, but here it is, Bloodsucker from 2F of Alternate Hospital:
Image
Image


That´s all for now, i'm trying to figure it out the other textures.
Last edited by Giromancy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:04 pm.
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Image Image Image
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Roden

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Beta Monsters Textures

Post by Roden on Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:25 am

Great work guys. I hope some more beta content turns up. Perhaps you can also compare the levels on the demo CD? Maybe there's areas like the house or hospital in some form (unlikely, but you never know!).
 
 
 
 
 
 

PaulSilentin

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Post by PaulSilentin on Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:07 pm

Giromancy wrote:Could you upload a bigger image of Larval Stalker?

sure, here:
ImageImage
REVEAL SPOILER: "gif animation"
Image

Giromancy wrote:I can help you with this:

Thanks you! This is useful information. But how did you fixed the textures palette? I don't know how to fix it, it always distorted for me:
Image

also, how did you open PRS.TIM file? My tool is crashing everytime i try...

p.s. thank you for SH PAL save files! Extremely useful!
https://sites.google.com/site/shresort/epsxe-gamesaves
Roden wrote:Perhaps you can also compare the levels on the demo CD? Maybe there's areas like the house or hospital in some form (unlikely, but you never know!).

I can't clearly understand the structure of levels and level models files. Seems like models & placement files stored inside of "BG" and in "VIN" folders. /BG (contains .TIM, .PLM, IPD files), VIN (contains .BIN)

Following logic "BG" folder is 36,6 MB and "VIN" is 3,50 MB (JP retail ver.). Looks like inside of /BG folder contains models and textures of the city. And inside of /VIN folder is some kind of hybrid of text and placement files merged together inside plus extra files and unknown data. Pretty confusing, but maybe we will edit/add monsters coordinates in the locations if we will understand the structure.
 
 
 
 
 

Giromancy

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Post by Giromancy on Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:07 am

PaulSilentin wrote:sure, here:
ImageImage
REVEAL SPOILER: "gif animation"
Image

That gif!! finally we can see him closer, thanks Paul, and hope you can release that .ppf patch soon!.


PaulSilentin wrote:Thanks you! This is useful information. But how did you fixed the textures palette? I don't know how to fix it, it always distorted for me:
Image

You're welcome ;). It´s simple, just copy and paste the different palletes (layers) to Photoshop, for example, the texture of Harry (HERO.ILM) you have ¨15¨ Palletes, each one with a different color, red for Hammer, brown for his jacket, blue for handgun etc. when you have all the palletes separate in each layer in Photoshop, just cut the wrong colors in each layer and then merge all the layers to have a full color texture and that´s it. Sorry for my Engrish, i hope you have understood.

Here, you have an example:

REVEAL SPOILER
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image



PaulSilentin wrote:also, how did you open PRS.TIM file? My tool is crashing everytime i try...

Im using TimViewer and I had no problem opening files, also you can use jpsxdec, make an ¨analyze disc image¨ and then explore all the Tim files with their respective palletes, you can convert it to BMP if you want and save it to your Computer, it works fine for me.


PaulSilentin wrote:p.s. thank you for SH PAL save files! Extremely useful!
https://sites.google.com/site/shresort/epsxe-gamesaves

;) Use it without problem, if you need the savegames for NTSC version just tell me.


PaulSilentin wrote:I can't clearly understand the structure of levels and level models files. Seems like models & placement files stored inside of "BG" and in "VIN" folders. /BG (contains .TIM, .PLM, IPD files), VIN (contains .BIN)

Following logic "BG" folder is 36,6 MB and "VIN" is 3,50 MB (JP retail ver.). Looks like inside of /BG folder contains models and textures of the city. And inside of /VIN folder is some kind of hybrid of text and placement files merged together inside plus extra files and unknown data. Pretty confusing, but maybe we will edit/add monsters coordinates in the locations if we will understand the structure.

It is possible to change the scripts for the Larval Stalker and make it able to kill him? and able to attack Harry, also changing the coordinates we can put it everywhere you want right? in the School courtyard like in the E3 trailer, If that´s possible, that would open a lot of doors to make a really good BETA mod.
==================================
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==================================
 
 
 
 
 

Giromancy

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Post by Giromancy on Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:53 am

The textures: PRS.ILM & PRSD.ILM in the OPM demo are beta textures of Puppet Nurses and Parasitized Doctor, I guess that's how they looked in a early development:

REVEAL SPOILER
Image Image

Image

Image
Last edited by Giromancy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:04 pm.
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==================================
 
 
 
 
 

Charon

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Post by Charon on Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:41 am

This is amazing. The most reliable way to know about the development of a game is taking a look into the game files themselves, and those posts uncovers some interesting info.

Thanks a lot!
Veritas dahls una kosmolaivak.
 
 
 
 
 

PaulSilentin

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Post by PaulSilentin on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:41 pm

Giromancy wrote:The textures: PRS.ILM & PRSD.ILM in the OPM demo are beta textures of Puppet Nurses and Parasitized Doctor, I guess that's how they looked in a early development

nice find, they are really different! Here how it's looks like in-game, my mod. (it was harder than demon's child imports)

Image

i will post more info later with gifs and large screens, also our SH characters list were updated, only 7-8 unknown models is left to discover for whole picture
 
 
 
 
 

Roden

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Post by Roden on Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:58 pm

Awesome finds. I wish we could access the hospital in OPM version, it must of been extremely beta-ish at that time..
 
 
 
 
 
 

Giromancy

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Post by Giromancy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:02 pm

PaulSilentin wrote:nice find, they are really different! Here how it's looks like in-game, my mod. (it was harder than demon's child imports)

i will post more info later with gifs and large screens, also our SH characters list were updated, only 7-8 unknown models is left to discover for whole picture

That´s great Paul, keep this awesome work. Btw, you had to edit the textures positions to make it work right? Also the size of the faces in the beta textures are bigger.

I'm still trying to figure it out the other textures on your list.

Roden wrote:Awesome finds. I wish we could access the hospital in OPM version, it must of been extremely beta-ish at that time..


I don´t know if the 3D hospital models are inside the CD, but the textures were not included in the OPM version, just the normal and alternate school and the OLD SH area.

If you were able to hack this demo to explore the OLD SH area, im pretty sure you can access to the BETA HOSPITAL, if there's one of course!. ;)
==================================
Image Image Image
==================================
 
 
 
 
 

pionner

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Post by pionner on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:33 am

Final version had this code to walk through walls in emulators. Maybe demo has one to? Maybe it would help to get to Old Silent Hill Area?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Roden

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Post by Roden on Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:30 am

It's highly unlikely. The game crashes when you go to fight the school boss, so it's likely they removed everything else map-wise. Only areas that MIGHT be accessible are outside Midwich, inside the house, convenience store and the basketball court. You probably won't be able to get to those with walk-through-walls either, as I think the area with the alley/cafe and the area outside Midwich are two different levels/stages entirely (i.e. not actually connected), though that still needs to be confirmed.
 
 
 
 
 
 

pionner

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Post by pionner on Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:35 am

It's worth a try. Somebody know how to find those codes?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Roden

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Post by Roden on Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:48 am

pionner wrote:It's worth a try. Somebody know how to find those codes?

I have a coordinate changer, which is pretty much the same thing (check the other demo thread). Using it in SH town works well but there's really not much to see, unless you maybe run around for 3 hours in the blank gray areas and hopefully come across something..
 
 
 
 
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