Ito confirms some stuff about Lisa... (spoilers)

[Shadedarkan]

Too bad there hasn't been another character in the series yet that evoked the kind of emotional response she did.

You could make a case for Mary in SH2 (especially the scene at the end when she's reading her letter) and Heather in SH3.

I'm sure people will roll their eyes at this because she seems to be a universally disliked little girl, but Laura is a big part of what made SH2 an emotional game for me. When James tells her that he killed Mary, her reaction almost made me cry despite the cheesy voice.



That's not fair James, she was her best friend. Poor baby.

Laura is a different case study in my mind. We understand that she and Mary were close friends, but I find something 'off' about her character. As if she isn't really 'real'. I've never been able to put my finger on it, but then, she's a very tough girl and she wasn't that hurt about James killing her. Trust me, it's not the cheesy voice throwing her 'off' either, lol. I actually think, of the SH2 voice overs, Laura, Maria and Mary were really well done with Eddie being better than the others. It would have been nice if they left those first three alone and were able to just redo the others. Just how I don't see why they felt the need to redo Heather's voice over in SH3. That was as good as the series ever got in my opinion.

[captain crowbar]

Pyramid Heart is the only flippin person making any sense besides Xuch. If you guys disagree with Mr. Ito, go tell him yourself. Otherwise, feel free to try and come up with a new theory besides people being teleported to other universes like people for some reason felt the need to believe in. And that has nothing to do with this topic anyway.

LISA HAS HUGE JUGS AND I THINK SHE'S HAWT. Thus, let's talk about her more.

[Augophthalmoses]

Crowbar, your purpose in the Silent Hill fandom is basically to do nothing but aid TwinPerfect in the misinformation they spread. It's pretty pathetic that their primary arguments consistently rely on trying to squirm new interpretations of any of the creators' statements.

First, those two idiots tried to insinuate that Ito had added an extra sentence or two in his response when he tweeted Toyama's reply to the SH1 ending discussion with no plausible evidence whatsoever to back that claim up. After that fiasco you tried to claim Jeremy agreed with your theory and not the MDT (despite your theory being ripped from off from Pyramid Heart which was in turn another take on the MDT). Even had a discussion about it on this site.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=433306&start=40

Then you just left the debate altogether once "what" pointed out that you were full of shit and you realized you didn't have an argument left to work with.

And now this. How stupid do you have to be in order to get "Ito confirmed one world theory!" out of this? It's one thing to misinterpret what he actually said. It's another to intentionally do so for the sole purpose to fuel the already large amount of misinformation floating about. That's why you're ultimately a joke.

[Floodclaw]

What Ito seems to be saying there is that the otherworld is most definitely not the real world. He considers 'parallel world' to mean 'alternate timeline' (what if...-world). So the otherworld and the real world exist on the same dimension, they're just different shades or levels of that dimension.

A far cry from 'it all takes place in the real world'. And when it comes down to it being story-relevant and not pedantic about word meanings, 'multiple dimensions' and 'different realities in one dimension' mean the same damn thing. I don't know why this is still contested.

In any case, yes, let's get back to Lisa.

[Augophthalmoses]

Not really a whole lot else to say about Lisa now that the cat is out of the bag. I do think it's the more boring scenario than Kaufmann killing her, but it makes sense.

[Purramid_Head]

Actually, I don't think its boring. You see in SH3 the Valtiel in the hospital with the nurse is a metaphor for Lisa. So the connection was always there. Valtiel is Alessa's guardian, why would he hurt Lisa? She seemed to be the only person who cared about Alessa. Maybe she hindered the God's plans.... Her spirit has remained trapped for 17 years, why is her spirit trapped?

Also, stop fighting. This isn't about MDT or anyone else's claims.

[NarooN]

Yeah, no need to have yet another flamewar about the MDT here.

Lisa being punished has always been a mystery to me, it's always fascinated me. Did Alessa harbor some resentment for her? Alessa did wish to die, maybe she hated Lisa for "taking care of her" and prolonging her life, perhaps?

[_Bleaux]

I've kind of just been lurking and reading this one.

I just want to make sure of something real quick, MDT does mean Multi-Dimensional Theory right?

[Pyramid_Heart]

Actually, I don't think its boring. You see in SH3 the Valtiel in the hospital with the nurse is a metaphor for Lisa. So the connection was always there. Valtiel is Alessa's guardian, why would he hurt Lisa? She seemed to be the only person who cared about Alessa. Maybe she hindered the God's plans.... Her spirit has remained trapped for 17 years, why is her spirit trapped?

Also, stop fighting. This isn't about MDT or anyone else's claims.

In-game memos mention that people who commit suicide can often be trapped where they died. That's sort of an easy way to explain Lisa.

[NarooN]

I've kind of just been lurking and reading this one.

I just want to make sure of something real quick, MDT does mean Multi-Dimensional Theory right?

Yep.

As for Lisa, that doesn't make sense unless she's just "trapped" in the Otherworld itself, as she appears in numerous places in SH3.

[Purramid_Head]

Let me clarify.

Lisa only appears after Heather recovers memories of her in Brookhaven. There is no references to Lisa prior to then. The mouth and ears in the Insurance building are not Lisa's. This was confirmed in an interview. The nurse in the church portion has nothing to do with Lisa, which Owaku mentioned. So, she only "appears" in the hospital.

Lisa didn't committ suicide. You can overdose and not die, this is what happened to Courtney Love and her daughter took care of her until the ambulance arrived. Ito said she didn't kill herself accidentally or on purpose, the Valtiel killed her. This is what I'm wondering about is Valtiel's relationship with Lisa considering he is Alessa and Heather's guardian.

[NarooN]

She OD'd but Valtiel killed her? Lolwat.

I guess Valtiel killing her would somewhat explain him torturing her at numerous points in the game.

[Purramid_Head]

Well, Silent Evil and I are trying to get Ito to clarify. The comic has that scenario, it may not be canon. But I am still curious why he's always paired with her.

[Shadedarkan]

I was under the distinct impression that Valtiel is not trailing Alessa/Heather in any such 'guardian' relationship. My understanding was that Valtiel could care less about Alessa/Heather and is only concerned with the well-being of God inside her.
A 'guardian' role would imply that Valtiel would keep Alessa/Heather safe. It would seem that the only time he becomes involved is if Alessa/Heather dies. He is seen in numerous scenes tenderizing corpses, but I don't recall any scenes of him actually killing a monster like we see with Pyramid Head. Given his personality and how it relates to Alessa/Heather, he could have had any number of reasons to kill Lisa.
Valtiel has no reason to care about Lisa. We know that Lisa's nursing wasn't keeping Alessa alive. I see it more like Lisa was basically a maid just trying to keep things clean. We do know that Alessa/Heather thought kindly and lovingly on Lisa despite her being a druggy and unable to actually help Alessa/Heather out of her plight. If anything, the fact that Alessa/Heather thought kindly about Lisa could be the reason Valtiel killed her.
We know that God was nurtured by suffering and hate. With Lisa being around Alessa's hate wasn't maximized. Kill Lisa, maxamize Alessa's hate, God get's born faster, right?

[Purramid_Head]

Well, I figure the reason we don't see the Val in 1 is because we are not seeing the game from Alessa's POV. But that was Ito's words.

He says the comic was written as canon but because Toyama wasn't involved he doesn't consider it canon himself. To make matters more confusing.

That's what Lost Memories says but... The god protects it's mother's body which explains why Alessa was burned far from a fatal level but was alright. Dahlia says it feeds off her nightmares, not hatred. Since she's been living that nightmare for 7 years I don't find him killing Lisa to nurture hatred, since it will only nurture hatred towards the Valtiel(?) Which Alessa seems to be unaware of given Lisa died shortly before 1 takes place. The only conclusion I can fathom is that Lisa posed some threat to the god in some form.

[Waverer]

Is it possible that the God inside Alessa could have developed certain emotions towards Lisa - regardless of what Alessa herself thought?

Also, does Valtiel have free will and the ability to act on it, or is he a blind servant of God? I remember in SH3, we were told that God created a red god and a yellow god "to lead people in obedience to her". Is Valtiel one of those gods? If so, Lisa wanted to quit her duties nursing Alessa, so maybe the god saw this as disobedience. When Heather remembers her fondly later, maybe Valtiel tortures Lisa's spirit in front of her to set an example - that is what happens to people who don't comply to the will of God and the plans of the cult.

[Purramid_Head]

I would assume it has free will because of the Walter stint. I rather like your hypothesis that because Lisa wanted to quit nursing her it would interfer in God's rebirth.

[Shadedarkan]

I mention suffering and hate because these are the things that Claudia says God is nurtured by in one of her ramblings to Heather in SH3. From many of the things Claudia did in SH3, I don't believe there is any importance as to what Alessa/Heather hates, just as long as God has that emotion to feed off of. Emotions are just energies and it would seem God prefers suffering and hate.
I could see how Valtiel would see Lisa's want to leave her duties to Alessa as disobedience in a way even though Lisa wasn't there to serve God. I mean, the God embryo wasn't letting Alessa die so it didn't really matter if Lisa was there or not.
It would be nice to know at what point in Alessa's timeline that Valtiel showed up. Was he there from the moment of God's conception or did he pop in later? Just knowing that would shed plenty more light on the situation. We just know so little of the story from that side.

[Mercury]

I think it's possible that Lisa might have tried to kill the Incubus physically which resulted in Valtiel eliminating her. It might not be true, but it's what I like to think at the moment. It's hard to really know anything at all yet though.

[NarooN]

I quite like the theory that Lisa was killed because she wanted to quit her job as nursing Alessa. That does make sense.