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Supernatural references in SH2 (spoilers)

Discuss the second game here.
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Xuchilbara
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Supernatural references in SH2 (spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara »

I made this topic along time ago in a forum far, far away....

So I will try to remember every bit of it. Most of this is off the top of my head.

Anyway, the point is that some people think there is nothing supernatural to SH2. There absolutely is. It's just way more covert than the original game and subsequent ones. I made a list of all the things I could think of...

Main game:
  • -Occult paraphernalia in the prison cells. This includes the wax doll, books on summoning fallen angels (etc), and sigils drawn on the wall.

    -The faded Seal of Metatrons [?] found when fighting the two pyramid heads.

    -Monsters being manifested as James's problems. There's at least one monster that is a remnant of Alessa's nightmare; the bugs. (This one has nothing to do with James.)

    -The sound of prisoners' rattling the bars in their cells and the sound of the hooves of horses near the executioner's post.

    -The tome, obsidian goblet, white oil, as ritual items. (Implied to be for the red god, Xuchilpaba [AKA Xuchilbara], as a part of the Crimson Ceremony to resurrect the dead.)

    -The Book of Lost Memories mentions that there are spirits everywhere. Not just of dead ancestors, but spirits of nature as well.

    -"Feast of the Gods" painting in the prison that depicts Jimmy Stone performing a ceremony in front of an audience. The Valtiel Sect, of which Stone is a priest of, is tied to the indigenous religious cult of the area; The Order. (1)

    -In a related part of the lore, the stone monument states that many executions were done in Silent Hill and because of the blood spilled, with the emotion, there is many ghost sightings in the area. This appears to relate to the Occult magazine memo found in SH3. (3) This is expanded on in The Book of Lost Memories. (4)

    -In the otherworld time and physical limitations are transcended; thoughts of people are communicated and connected. This explains the enigmatic letters from the Brookhaven director to James in the 2nd game. For example, he seems to know things about James without even meeting him. (ibid 4)

    -Maria has Mary's memories. This is further seen in Born From A Wish, where she remembers Laura despite never knowing her nor James. (Is she the reincarnation of Mary?)

    -It is implied that a heater burned down the Lakeview Hotel. The heater even has a note on it that says "I'm Johnny, one hot guy.". (5) If previous lore is added up, it appears the Order may be behind this as they did not take kindly to the town being developed. It is implied in (6) that the Order cursed the developers and almost directly stated in (7) that the Order cursed many people who got in their way. (They died mysterious deaths as a result.) So, it could be that the mystery heater fire of the hotel, was a result of such shenanigans. (The Old Gods don't take kindly to the town being turned into a tourist attraction, it seems.)

    -Native American like chants in the form of tunes can be heard in the laybrinth. (8)

    -Maria comes back to life multiple times.

    -References to sin and sinners are scattered in the game. Mostly as implication. But with the 3 tablets at the prison are specifically referring to Angela, Eddie, and James, and their sins, respectively.
Born From A Wish:
  • -Maria has Mary's memories.

    -With the boards, they detail aspects of the religion of Silent Hill. In the white board, "spirit of the mist" is referenced and is possibly implying Xuchilpaba. The black board references "You Who Deny Death". The red board states "oh you gods deep in slumber".

    - In the memo about acacia, it is mentioned as a symbol of immortality in multiple religions. Ishtar, the Babylonian goddess of fertility and war, the Queen of Heaven and Earth, is mentioned in conjunction with acacia. (This is because, Ishtar, also known as the Sumerian "Inanna", came back from the dead in one famous story.)

    -In the Book of Lost Memories memo is talks about the old Native religion and how they believed in death was not an end but that they thought the deceased merely returned to nature. They also thought the process was reversible. The same memo mentions the god Xuchilpaba and their salvation, while having notes about the ritual items for the Crimson Ceremony. (Though the names are slightly variant, this "Xuchilpaba" is probably the same as the red god Xuchilbara mentioned in the paintings in SH3. Hence the "crimson" (another shade of red) being mentioned in conjunction with them.)

    -On the tombstone, gods are mentioned.

    -There is graffiti outside the mansion that says that the house is haunted. This turns out to be true, as Ernest is a ghost.

    -Ernest figures out why Maria can hear him, when others cannot. But this reason is implied that Maria came back from the dead. He tells here the gods are there [in Silent Hill] and she can feel it too, because she was born in the town. Maria simply retorts "I'm not sure 'gods' is the right word for it.'
...If you have any suggestions, I will add them to the guide!
"Speak.
I am the Crimson One.
The lies and the mist are
not they, but I.
You all know that I am One.
Yes, and the One is I."
- Me, probably
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chimik
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:14 am

Re: Supernatural references in SH2 (spoilers)

Post by chimik »

Xuchilbara wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:00 am I made this topic along time ago in a forum far, far away....

So I will try to remember every bit of it. Most of this is off the top of my head.

Anyway, the point is that some people think there is nothing supernatural to SH2. There absolutely is. It's just way more covert than the original game and subsequent ones. I made a list of all the things I could think of...

Main game:
  • -Occult paraphernalia in the prison cells. This includes the wax doll, books on summoning fallen angels (etc), and sigils drawn on the wall.

    -The faded Seal of Metatrons [?] found when fighting the two pyramid heads.

    -Monsters being manifested as James's problems. There's at least one monster that is a remnant of Alessa's nightmare; the bugs. (This one has nothing to do with James.)

    -The sound of prisoners' rattling the bars in their cells and the sound of the hooves of horses near the executioner's post.

    -The tome, obsidian goblet, white oil, as ritual items. (Implied to be for the red god, Xuchilpaba [AKA Xuchilbara], as a part of the Crimson Ceremony to resurrect the dead.)

    -The Book of Lost Memories mentions that there are spirits everywhere. Not just of dead ancestors, but spirits of nature as well.

    -"Feast of the Gods" painting in the prison that depicts Jimmy Stone performing a ceremony in front of an audience. The Valtiel Sect, of which Stone is a priest of, is tied to the indigenous religious cult of the area; The Order. (1)

    -In a related part of the lore, the stone monument states that many executions were done in Silent Hill and because of the blood spilled, with the emotion, there is many ghost sightings in the area. This appears to relate to the Occult magazine memo found in SH3. (3) This is expanded on in The Book of Lost Memories. (4)

    -In the otherworld time and physical limitations are transcended; thoughts of people are communicated and connected. This explains the enigmatic letters from the Brookhaven director to James in the 2nd game. For example, he seems to know things about James without even meeting him. (ibid 4)

    -Maria has Mary's memories. This is further seen in Born From A Wish, where she remembers Laura despite never knowing her nor James. (Is she the reincarnation of Mary?)

    -It is implied that a heater burned down the Lakeview Hotel. The heater even has a note on it that says "I'm Johnny, one hot guy.". (5) If previous lore is added up, it appears the Order may be behind this as they did not take kindly to the town being developed. It is implied in (6) that the Order cursed the developers and almost directly stated in (7) that the Order cursed many people who got in their way. (They died mysterious deaths as a result.) So, it could be that the mystery heater fire of the hotel, was a result of such shenanigans. (The Old Gods don't take kindly to the town being turned into a tourist attraction, it seems.)

    -Native American like chants in the form of tunes can be heard in the laybrinth. (8)

    -Maria comes back to life multiple times.

    -References to sin and sinners are scattered in the game. Mostly as implication. But with the 3 tablets at the prison are specifically referring to Angela, Eddie, and James, and their sins, respectively.
Born From A Wish:
  • -Maria has Mary's memories.

    -With the boards, they detail aspects of the religion of Silent Hill. In the white board, "spirit of the mist" is referenced and is possibly implying Xuchilpaba. The black board references "You Who Deny Death". The red board states "oh you gods deep in slumber".

    - In the memo about acacia, it is mentioned as a symbol of immortality in multiple religions. Ishtar, the Babylonian goddess of fertility and war, the Queen of Heaven and Earth, is mentioned in conjunction with acacia. (This is because, Ishtar, also known as the Sumerian "Inanna", came back from the dead in one famous story.)

    -In the Book of Lost Memories memo is talks about the old Native religion and how they believed in death was not an end but that they thought the deceased merely returned to nature. They also thought the process was reversible. The same memo mentions the god Xuchilpaba and their salvation, while having notes about the ritual items for the Crimson Ceremony. (Though the names are slightly variant, this "Xuchilpaba" is probably the same as the red god Xuchilbara mentioned in the paintings in SH3. Hence the "crimson" (another shade of red) being mentioned in conjunction with them.)

    -On the tombstone, gods are mentioned.

    -There is graffiti outside the mansion that says that the house is haunted. This turns out to be true, as Ernest is a ghost.

    -Ernest figures out why Maria can hear him, when others cannot. But this reason is implied that Maria came back from the dead. He tells here the gods are there [in Silent Hill] and she can feel it too, because she was born in the town. Maria simply retorts "I'm not sure 'gods' is the right word for it.'
...If you have any suggestions, I will add them to the guide!
Although I have yet to play SH 1 and 3, I do know a bit about how much "other forces" impact the silent hill landscape and, like with most things regarding silent hill 2, its really.... really.... really subtle and I wouldn't have it any other way lol.
One thing I remember hearing (can't remember if it is a direct quote from Team Silent or not/maybe it was from the interview with Owaku and Yamaoka) was that Silent Hill would be pretty lame if it really was all in James' head. Because how much different would silent hill really be if it was just a dream? Honestly, the supernatural element that "draws" people into the town is the starting point for me when it comes to other forces in the world.
Lastly, one thing that's been bugging me that I don't know if there's a clear answer on (cause all the answers I've been getting is "James is simply just an unreliable narrator") is the time frame. When it comes to the "in water" ending, things dicey in terms of having a proper time frame, at least for me. Because when Laura explains to James that it hasn't been that long since she last saw Mary, James' intense dismissal of that time frame stating that it has been "3 years" but at the same time... Ito did say Mary is in the back seat. She couldn't have been in there for 3 years right? Rather, it would make more sense if James had just euthanized Mary and his "stay" at Silent Hill had been something that happened right after the act. But still... how would that explain the "Neely's bar quote" or the tons of other references given by the town to James that are attempting to remind him of his grief during the passage of time, while still going for the "in water" ending. Could this be an inconsistency on Team Silent's part? I personally don't think so.
IMO I really do think that the supernatural component of Silent Hill messes with the people who are drawn to it in an internal and external way, with time frames being distorted, entire realities being shifted the further its residents go deeper into their psyche, and physical manifestation of "negative feeling states".
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